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AMD Vega Roadmap


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33 replies to this topic

#21
injurai

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When did selling pre-fab liquid cooled cards become a thing? I only ever remember after market kits.



#22
Azdeus

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It's ludicrous. I want one though. Might be because I really wanted a Fury back when.



#23
Zoraptor

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I bought a 550W PSU because I decided 650 would be overkill and draws were going down... and it ought to be OK for any of the three consumer cards, if only just for the liquid cooled one. Might be moot anyway, the preorder pricing here is $500 more than a 1080Ti which is a joke plain and simple. Hopefully placeholder as otherwise you'd have to be mad to buy one.

 

Quite marked the difference between AMD processor and graphics though, I cannot get my 1700 above 65 degrees (OK, it is winter) even with Prime95 on the default Spire but that temp could well be Vega's idle temp.

 

Some leaked Vega56 leaked benchmarks, which do look very competitive.

 

When did selling pre-fab liquid cooled cards become a thing? I only ever remember after market kits.

 

2 years ago with FuryX I guess, it's kind of an AMD thing now since the prosumer VegaFEs had an option for it as well.


Edited by Zoraptor, 02 August 2017 - 10:25 PM.


#24
teknoman2

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Vega pretty much catches up to the 1070 and 1080, but considering the price it is not exactly competitive. but i think Vega is more of a tech demo for the developers than a card meant to wrestle a chunk of the market out of nvidia's hands.



#25
Zoraptor

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It's competitive, at MSRP. Vega56 especially so. Doesn't look like MSRP is going to stick any more than it has with 580s (and 1070s for that matter) so who knows how competitive the pricing will end up being. The whole production cycle sounds like a bit of a mess though, since it seems they've had to switch memory providers and the like. I'm still pretty keen to pick up a V56 assuming end pricing isn't totally stupid, but it would be around christmas and an AIB rather than reference.

 

Their end goal is obviously to do a 'proper' APU system, this is a rather messy early step along that path.



#26
Keyrock

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My guess is that AMD's insistence on using HBM has hurt it, at least in the short term.  So far, Nvidia has eschewed using HBM in its consumer-grade GPUs and it hasn't cost them at all.  As of right now, the benefits of HBM for gaming seem to be nonexistent, GDDR5 is still doing just fine.  That may, of course, change in the future.



#27
Zoraptor

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AMD has a stake in HBM, iirc, which is why they use it. Theoretically its benefit is being able to use less of it for the same effect which ought to use less power and be cheaper even if it's more expensive per GB. They've got stung because it's new, and the main manufacturer (Hynix) hasn't been able to produce the chips they promised so they're using slower chips and trying to make up the performance in other ways- presumably, from the power draw and water cooling, overvolting. If they can get the memory up to speed Vega RXI could get a decent 'free' performance boost and power draw drop at the same time which would help competitiveness, but that's all conjecture and won't help now.



#28
Keyrock

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I think HBM is the future, it's just not necessary yet.  The extra bandwith, for gaming applications, is overkill at the moment, GDDR5's bandwith is still plenty.  At some point, GDDR5 won't be enough, that point is not here yet.  Hopefully the HBM gambit pans out for AMD in the long run and they catch up to Nvidia.  As a consumer, I want the 2 companies as competitive as possible across the board.  I guess the best bit of good news for AMD is consumer-grade Volta getting delayed until 2018, as I expect Volta to mop the floor with everything that's out today.


Edited by Keyrock, 18 August 2017 - 03:22 PM.


#29
teknoman2

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My guess is that AMD's insistence on using HBM has hurt it, at least in the short term.  So far, Nvidia has eschewed using HBM in its consumer-grade GPUs and it hasn't cost them at all.  As of right now, the benefits of HBM for gaming seem to be nonexistent, GDDR5 is still doing just fine.  That may, of course, change in the future.

this is why i call it a tech demo. the features in this card go unused by today's games but they offer solutions to eternal limitations of game design (HBM most of all) so if they convince developers to take advantage of these features, you could see a big leap in the future. 



#30
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Still no custom Vega cards released, but on the other hand the reference v56 are available here for a decent price at 750NZD and ~80NZD less than a 1070Ti. Since I can still sell my 580 for a decent amount a v56 card and a new monitor are on the menu for Christmas.

 

Only drawback is that 1440p is probably the natural res for a v56 card but we only have have 1 IPS freesync monitor available in the whole country apparently.



#31
Azdeus

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Yeah, I'm getting a bit annoyed by that, was hoping they'd release some form of custom card. I managed to get a hold of a R9 Fury for now wich does the job well enough, but I really had wanted a Vega.



#32
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Vega 20* cards have appeared in some Linux certification, so it looks liker there will be a Vega refresh this year despite it not being announced. That should at least help with efficiency, and that may indirectly help with decently clocked memory.

 

Plus eth is collapsing, so maybe I'll be able to pick up an actual card some time for less than the current $1100 asking price. Ironically Vega has probably been one of the most successful chips ever despite its flaws thanks to mining, it's basically never been in stock since launch nearly a year ago.

 

*AMD's naming conventions really are stupid, since they have Vega8, 11, 24 (Intel), 56, 64 as consumer products which are all based on Vega10 chips '14nm'; with Vega 20 being the 'tock' '7nm' die shrunk chip to Vega10's 'tick'. Ryzen naming is about as consistent.



#33
AwesomeOcelot

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The Vega 20 leak presents a non-gaming GPU not a refresh.



#34
Zoraptor

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Yeah, consumer products aren't confirmed, but...

 

That pro/ machine learning Vega20 was announced in January. Die shrunk Vega consumer cards actually were mentioned before that, they simply haven't been mentioned since. To put it in perspective, most people expect a new nVidia series to drop in the next month or so, and it hasn't been formally announced either and there were pro versions of Vega10 before the consumer version release as well, given '7nm' is a new process and the margins for pro level cards that's an almost inevitable approach.

 

Advantages to Vega of a die shrink are far too great to pass up since it would fix nearly all its problems bar some associated with HBM; and even there reduced GPU heat will help memory clock a lot (indeed, undervolting the gpu to reduce memory throttling is perhaps the most common 'overclock' approach for Vega). Unless Navi is far further along than thought- possible, but the only 'evidence' for it is the inconsistent and speculative ps5 leaks- they'd be stuck with Vega 10/ Polaris chips for maybe the next 18 months.






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