Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

All heroes rated and described! The unofficial, authoritative list!


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1
Frivolimous

Frivolimous

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 25 posts

Hey guys, new to the forum but not new to theorycrafting.  I've created a foolproof rating system for this game and I would like to share it with you all.  Feedback is welcome and will be included in the OP, with quotes, if found to be a relevent correction.

 

Info about the system:

The rating system only takes into account the content which already exists.  This means a character from level 0 to level... 3?  Well, attributes: Stat 4, Card 3, Power 3.  I am not taking account the class-up gained at the end of current content, or theory crafting beyond... even though I've already done that of course.

 

I am rating each character based on five traits: Kill, Close, Sustain, Assist, Explore.  Each will be given a rating out of 5, based on a comparison between characters.  There will usually only be a single 5/5 and other characters will be rated down from there.

 

Kill: Ability to kill an enemy.  This represents the greatest potential damage available to the character if they burn all of their powers.

Close: Ability to close a diverse number of locations.  This number represents the average of all the character's non-combat skills

Sustain: Ability to complete a map without burning to many cards.  This is a more abstract rating based on recharging abilities, proportion of rechargeable cards (ie. spells), and especially healing abilities and spells which allow you to recharge other players' cards.

Assist: Ability to boost other players' rolls through abilities or card types (bow, high # of blessings).

Explore: Ability to explore and/or scout multiple locations in a single round.  This includes Ally/Blessing Deck Ratio, Hand Size and any scouting abilities.

 

Now that the system is explained, without further ado, here are your 11 characters!

 

Amiri - The Barbarian

Kill: 5/5, Close 1/5, Sustain 0/5, Assist 1/5, Explore 2/5

 

Amiri can kill... and that's pretty much it.  She is by far the post powerful character, capable of the highest damage in the game.  She has poor exploring stats and no sustain ability.  She has one potential assist ability (move other character) and she can get a modest blessing count which makes her a decent explorer, but the small hand size kills it.

 

Ezren - The Wizard

Kill: 4/5, Close 2/5, Sustain 2/5, Assist 2/5, Explore 3/5

 

Ezren has a large number of spells which makes it difficult to rate him - because his spell selection can improve any of his ratings.  He is a powerful killer and has 2's across the board.  With more stat boosting spells he can be a better Closer or Assister, with lower cost spells he can have greater sustain and with lots of Auguries and Detect Magics he can become a more decent explorer (especially later when more magic items appear).

 

Harsk - The Ranger

Kill: 2/5, Close 3/5, Sustain 1/5, Assist 4/5, Explore 3/5

 

Harsk is mainly a ranged support character.  In my play throughs he would usually just close 1 location slowly because he used up most of his cards boosting all the other characters.  He doesn't do much combat damage, has decent closing stats and his scouting ability combined with his hand size and decent blessing/ally count make him a decent explorer.

 

Kyra - The Cleric

Kill: 3/5, Close 1/5, Sustain 5/5, Assist 1/5, Explore 3/5

 
Kyra is the best healer in the game and with her high blessing count is a good explorer as well.  She can hold her own in combat, especially against Undead characters.  She has poor closing stats and her only assist ability is gained through spells, of which she has a limited number.
 

Lem - The Bard

Kill: 1/5, Close 4/5, Sustain 4/5, Assist 5/5, Explore 4/5

 
Lem is an interesting character.  He has the worst combat stats in the game, though if you focus on offensive spells he can hold his own.  He does, however, have great closing stats, he can heal giving him great sustain and his ally/blessing count make him a great explorer.  His best ability though is his ability to grant a bonus d4 to anyone at his location which gives him the highest assist score in the game and highest potential assist ability, if he partners with someone at his location
 

Lini - The Druid

Kill: 3/5, Close 5/5, Sustain 4/5, Assist 2/5, Explore 4/5

 
Lini is a closer.  Her pet ability to add a d4 to any roll is just so powerful.  Her ability to heal gives her a great sustain and her ally/blessing ratio is great for exploring.  Her only Assist ability is through spells and she has a decent number of those.  Lini is also not very strong in combat and she either has to focus on offensive spells or burn a card in order to get an OK damage die.
 
"Once you get [Lini] a weapon and proficiency, she can handle herself pretty well.... While she isn't a hardcore killer, she is pretty decent at higher levels...[e]specially with the fact she is great at recharging. " - Kgk4569
 

Merisel - The Rogue

Kill: 4.5/5, Close 4/5, Sustain 2/5, Assist 1/5, Explore 1/5

 
Merisel is the second best killer in the game after Amiri.  She also has great closing stats.  She doesn't have any sustain abilities, though her recharging backstab and ability to evade harsh encounters boost her somewhat.  She has poor explore ratios.  Her only assist ability is the ability to equip Bows and help her allies in combat. 
 

Sajan - The Monk

Kill: 3/5, Close 3/5, Sustain 2/5, Assist 2/5, Explore 5/5

 

Sajan is an interesting character.  He has very poor combat stats, second only to Lem.  He can deal extremely high potential damage with his unlimited blessings but his small hand size makes that difficult to accomplish - and he'd have to use his exploring power to do so.  He has decent closing stats and his high number of blessings (and allies) make him the best potential explorer, even though as stated he has a poor hand size.  His high number of blessings means he can offer some OK support to other characters through them.

 

"At first [Sajan] is a bit weak, due to the hand size, but once you increase that, and get him some healing staffs, or healing allies, He becomes a tank. Unlike others he doesn't need to depend on a weapon, he is g2g."  - Kgk4569

 

Seelah - The Paladin

Kill: 3/5, Close 4/5, Sustain 3/5, Assist 0/5, Explore 4/5

 
Seelah is a decent killer and her bonus d6 on any roll makes her a great closer.  She can heal, though only 1 starting spell isn't a lot of healing... especially if you accidentally burn it when boosting yourself!  She has decent combat stats and Crusade, along with a high blessing/ally ratio make her a great explorer.  She has no assist ability though, unless you replace your heal with an Assist spell.
 

Seoni - The Sorceress

Kill: 4/5, Close 3/5, Sustain 1/5, Assist 1/5, Explore 3/5

 

Seoni has high killing potential with her spells and decent closing stats, and her high number of blessings make her a good explorer.  She can auto-recharge her spells which helps her sustain and she can potentially get some assisting spells.

 

Valeros

Kill: 4/5, Close 1/5, Sustain 2/5, Assist 3/5, Explore 1/5

 
Valeros is a strong fighter and his assist ability is strong as well.  The fact that it only applies to combat, and only to someone at the same location are limitations to it which is why I rated his support lower than Harsk.  He has poor Closing, Sustain and Explore abilities, however.  The only thing that makes him sustainable is his ability to recharge weapons.

Edited by Frivolimous, 05 July 2016 - 01:35 PM.

  • PinkRose and Aarik D like this

#2
Bajie

Bajie

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 155 posts
Few things:

Amiri - Close should be higher as she is the only one who can close two location on one party turn.

Ezren - Sustain should be higher, if you can't recharge your spells, you should rethink your build. Explore should be 5..he has free explore on drawn spells/arcane cards. He can full explore most of the time > Thass Dungeon, Academy, Apothecacy and that big rock location on Sandpoint..not to mention most location aside from them have at least 2 spells in them.

Kyra - you yourself said she is the best healer in the game and have decent blessing but is 1/5 in support? Very odd..you should add ability to keep someone alive as something to consider when rating support rather than sustain..Val is higher in support for you when Kyra with assorted spells aside from Aid can help any location.

Lini - Support should be 5/5. Lini should be able to handle basic monster by herself with just Animal Trick, which leaves her blessings good to support other characters. Access to divine spells like Kyra should also boost her support capability. Recharging BOTH allies and spells with ease (via animal trick) should have a higher sustain.

Sajan - hmmm, Kill should be higher..his blessings should be mostly Erastil if not all, and that should solve your explore problem with him. High ( i think highest ) number of blessing should at least give him a minimum rating of 3 (at worst 2) on all your categories. Recharging more than half his deck should account for something in sustain, right?

Seelah - seems about right. A Powerhouse early to mid game but I find her slowing down at around AD3 (level 30-40). Definitely Top 3 (which is Lini, Seelah, Ezren for me)

Edited by Bajie, 01 July 2016 - 04:33 AM.


#3
Kgk4569

Kgk4569

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 553 posts
  • Steam:Kgk4569
I think you are WAY off on Sajan. He is my #1 dedicated killer. At first he is a bit weak, due to the hand size, but once you increase that, and get him some healing staffs, or healing allies (to recharge the few blessings he uses for noncombat or donates to other characters), He becomes a tank. Unlike others he doesn't need to depend on a weapon, he is g2g.


Lini also can be pretty powerful if you level her right. Once you get her a weapon and proficiency, she can handle herself pretty well. I generally pack her up with 2 cures, 1 Augery, an Aid and the rest offensive. While she isn't a hardcore killer, she is pretty decent at higher levels (+1d4+3 is no joke). Have her bounce around when needed with cures, and you will see how great she is. Especially with the fact she is great at recharging.

#4
Longshot11

Longshot11

    (7) Enchanter

  • Members
  • 809 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

Amiri - Close should be higher as she is the only one who can close two location on one party turn.
 

I don't know where you got that idea. *Anyone* can close two locations by spending  a 'move' card (Giant Badger or the currently bugged Cape of Escape) but besides that Amiri has no particular advantage. Her Move power triggers at end of turn, which is too late for new closings (unless the game is bugged and gives you a Close opportunity when you move to an empty location?).

Also, her Move ability seems to be generally underrated, but I dont see how that should be reflected in the given rating system.

 

Also, the 'Sustain' category does nothing for me. It seems a bit vague and neglects the fact that if a character will win a game with 10 or 0 cards in his deck makes no difference at all. I'd prefer a 'Cycle' category which reflects how fast/easy a charcter can get to a particular card, if it turned out to be at the bottom of their deck (so, Harsk, Sajan, Lem.. would rate high on it).


  • Hannibal_PJV likes this

#5
Bajie

Bajie

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 155 posts

Amiri - Close should be higher as she is the only one who can close two location on one party turn.

I don't know where you got that idea. *Anyone* can close two locations by spending a 'move' card (Giant Badger or the currently bugged Cape of Escape) but besides that Amiri has no particular advantage. Her Move power triggers at end of turn, which is too late for new closings (unless the game is bugged and gives you a Close opportunity when you move to an empty location?).
Also, her Move ability seems to be generally underrated, but I dont see how that should be reflected in the given rating system.

Also, the 'Sustain' category does nothing for me. It seems a bit vague and neglects the fact that if a character will win a game with 10 or 0 cards in his deck makes no difference at all. I'd prefer a 'Cycle' category which reflects how fast/easy a charcter can get to a particular card, if it turned out to be at the bottom of their deck (so, Harsk, Sajan, Lem.. would rate high on it).
Amiri closes a location then move into an open location. On subsequent turn for your partymates if they encounter a boss, Amiri can close a location it landed on as compared to other characters that once they close their location they're stuck there till their next turn. Pretty handy when your low on location deck or rushing a scenario when grinding.

2 man scenario/3 location left
-Amiri closes a location and moves out to an open location w/o yer partner. End turn
- partner encounters boss, Amiri temp closes her current location. Partners kills boss, Scenario won.

In contrast to
- character closes a locations and end turn
-partner encounters boss. Partner defeat boss but boss runs away.
-character moves to last location and hopes he draws boss rightaway.

Get it? Happens more than you'd think it wouldn't.

Edited by Bajie, 01 July 2016 - 08:50 AM.


#6
Longshot11

Longshot11

    (7) Enchanter

  • Members
  • 809 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

 

 

Amiri - Close should be higher as she is the only one who can close two location on one party turn.

I don't know where you got that idea. *Anyone* can close two locations by spending a 'move' card (Giant Badger or the currently bugged Cape of Escape) but besides that Amiri has no particular advantage. Her Move power triggers at end of turn, which is too late for new closings (unless the game is bugged and gives you a Close opportunity when you move to an empty location?).
Also, her Move ability seems to be generally underrated, but I dont see how that should be reflected in the given rating system.

Also, the 'Sustain' category does nothing for me. It seems a bit vague and neglects the fact that if a character will win a game with 10 or 0 cards in his deck makes no difference at all. I'd prefer a 'Cycle' category which reflects how fast/easy a charcter can get to a particular card, if it turned out to be at the bottom of their deck (so, Harsk, Sajan, Lem.. would rate high on it).
Amiri closes a location then move into an open location. On subsequent turn for your partymates if they encounter a boss, Amiri can close a location it landed on as compared to other characters that once they close their location they're stuck there till their next turn. Pretty handy when your low on location deck or rushing a scenario when grinding.

2 man scenario/3 location left
-Amiri closes a location and moves out to an open location w/o yer partner. End turn
- partner encounters boss, Amiri temp closes her current location. Partners kills boss, Scenario won.

In contrast to
- character closes a locations and end turn
-partner encounters boss. Partner defeat boss but boss runs away.
-character moves to last location and hopes he draws boss rightaway.

Get it? Happens more than you'd think it wouldn't.

 

Ah, ok. I wasn't sure you meant the Temp Close (as strictly speaking this not 'closing two locations in one turn'). But yeah, it comes up quite often and it's one of the uses that make this power my favorite power ever.



#7
HPL_fan

HPL_fan

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 105 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA

"Her only support ability is the optional Aid spell."

Not true.  Maybe this is a higher deck level issue, but Lini is definitely a must-have character for me because she's an excellent support character.  She has strength, dexterity and find trap spells that are available for support.  She an always seem to cobble together a winning roll for me not matter what check I'm up against, and half of those additions are usually available as support for other characters too.  I would up her support rating to 3/5



#8
elcoderdude

elcoderdude

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 128 posts

Something is definitely wonky with Sustain when Seoni is rated higher than Valeros.  Seoni will be discarding a card for combat a lot of the time, plus she has a lot of blessings and allies, which will often be discarded. Seoni is pretty much unplayable without some healing.  On the other hand, Valeros is recharging in most of his combats, he has fewer blessings and allies, and with his armor, is very hard to kill.


Edited by elcoderdude, 01 July 2016 - 02:22 PM.


#9
Bajie

Bajie

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 155 posts

. Seoni is pretty much unplayable without some healing.


Those are some fighting words, my good sir!

#10
elcoderdude

elcoderdude

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 128 posts

Ezren -  Explore should be 5..he has free explore on drawn spells/arcane cards. He can full explore most of the time > Thass Dungeon, Academy, Apothecacy and that big rock location on Sandpoint..not to mention most location aside from them have at least 2 spells in them.
 

 

I played Ezren through the entire Rise of the Runelords path. I wouldn't rate his ability to explore a 5. Ezren is an inconsistent, and often slow, explorer.  He's great at spell-heavy locations, but these are few, and, as the adventure number gets higher, he has less chance of acquiring Divine spells. It's true more boons are magic as you progress, but the weapons and armors become out of his reach, leaving magic items and Arcane spells, and their just aren't enough to make him a 5.


Edited by elcoderdude, 01 July 2016 - 03:55 PM.


#11
Bajie

Bajie

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 155 posts

Ezren -  Explore should be 5..he has free explore on drawn spells/arcane cards. He can full explore most of the time > Thass Dungeon, Academy, Apothecacy and that big rock location on Sandpoint..not to mention most location aside from them have at least 2 spells in them.

 
I played Ezren through the entire Rise of the Runelords path. I wouldn't rate his ability to explore a 5. Ezren is an inconsistent, and often slow, explorer.  He's great at spell-heavy locations, but these are few, and, as the adventure number gets higher, he has less chance of acquiring Divine spells. It's true more boons are magic as you progress, but the weapons and armors become out of his reach, leaving magic items and Arcane spells, and their just aren't enough to make him a 5.

The category is current content..

#12
elcoderdude

elcoderdude

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 128 posts

 

 

Ezren -  Explore should be 5..he has free explore on drawn spells/arcane cards. He can full explore most of the time > Thass Dungeon, Academy, Apothecacy and that big rock location on Sandpoint..not to mention most location aside from them have at least 2 spells in them.

 
I played Ezren through the entire Rise of the Runelords path. I wouldn't rate his ability to explore a 5. Ezren is an inconsistent, and often slow, explorer.  He's great at spell-heavy locations, but these are few, and, as the adventure number gets higher, he has less chance of acquiring Divine spells. It's true more boons are magic as you progress, but the weapons and armors become out of his reach, leaving magic items and Arcane spells, and their just aren't enough to make him a 5.

The category is current content..

 

Sure, but there are parallels. Since nearly all the content is the same, the card game and the digital game play very much alike.



#13
Kgk4569

Kgk4569

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 553 posts
  • Steam:Kgk4569
I wouldn't call this an authoritive list. Maybe opinion. So much depends on playstyle. Claiming to be an authority, then doing all the ratings based on your playstyle, or even rating a character you admit to knowing nothing about, is kinda ****. You are quite literally announcing only your playstyle matters.
  • wakasm likes this

#14
Bajie

Bajie

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 155 posts

I wouldn't call this an authoritive list. Maybe opinion. So much depends on playstyle. Claiming to be an authority, then doing all the ratings based on your playstyle, or even rating a character you admit to knowing nothing about, is kinda ****. You are quite literally announcing only your playstyle matters.


He also said foolproof ^^. He probably is just being funny but he did put some effort into it and that still counts eh? He's open to revision and opinions is a positive too even if he comes across as something else with the title.
  • PinkRose likes this

#15
elcoderdude

elcoderdude

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 128 posts

Yeah, it's a worthwhile exercise, and an interesting take on the question. 



#16
Frivolimous

Frivolimous

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 25 posts
Thanks guys for all your comments! I will try my best to address all of you in my update. Firstly yes, my title was meant to be a little tongue and cheek, but i do hope that, through all of your help, this will become the best rating system out there.

First I'd like to discuss the Healing, Support and Cycling comments.

My original idea was that Sustain means healing self or others as well as generally recharging. Anyone with only self-sustain is capped at 3/5. Support means the ability to aid another's rolls... essentially i should have named it "boost".

" [T]he 'Sustain' category...seems a bit vague.... I'd prefer a 'Cycle' category which reflects how fast/easy a charcter can get to a particular card, if it turned out to be at the bottom of their deck (so, Harsk, Sajan, Lem.. would rate high on it)." -Longshot11

Before getting too far into all the other discussions i think its important to firm up all the metrics. I dont want too many categories - 5 is more than enough. I think the other 3 categories are perfect (kill, close, explore).

So what do you think of this amendment to the last 2 categories:
Cycling: Ability to heal, swap, draw, recharge or otherwise positively affect the flow of your own deck.
Support: Ability to affect other characters positively, including boosting their rolls, moving them or helping to cycle their decks.

This means Healing counts for both Cycle and Support, but will only be half value for each.

The alternative is leaving the categories as is but renaming them to Sustain and Boost.

Id like some responses to this question first as that affects most of the concerns.

#17
Bajie

Bajie

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 155 posts
Essentials to a scenario win/farming/grinding should make up your category (top of my head)

How fast can you locate what you want in a location deck (e.g. Chest / Henchmen / Boss )
- Scouting ability with repositioning to top or bottom cards should get 2pt (safe explore)
- Ability to extra explore (sans allies/spells/blessing) should get 1pt (risky explore)
- Scouting power without repositioning should get 1/2 pt (safe setup)
- Access to minimum 4 allies should get 1/2 (risky exploration and cost 1 card)
- Access to scouting spell with repositioning is 1pt (safe explore but cost 1card)
- Access to extra explore spell (detects, haste) is 1/2pt ( optional explore except for haste which is risky but still cost a card.)
- Access to minimum 4 blessing would be 1/2 ( risky and cost a card )
- Access to minimum 4 item ( scouting items ) would be 1/2 (risky and cost a card)

Example:

Seelah
- Crusades is a 2pts for scout repositioning
- I considered Crusade an extra explore power (beginning) so 1pt
- her access to Augury/ Scrying is 1pt
- her access to Detect Evil is 1/2pt
- with 4 Blessings to discard for exploration is 1/2 pt

For a total of 5 points for Seelah the Explorer

Ditch Cycle,Sustain, Support, Boost

Its should just be Heal ( combine self recharging, self heal, heal others ..its all the same..putting cards back from the discard to your deck )
and Assist ( ability to add dice to others dice pool or give a +"number modifier" in order to succeed in their checks, move them , top decking a location )

So Characters should be rated by

Kill (ability to eliminate Monster)
Close ( characters with at least 3 stats rolling d8 or higher should be ranked high)
Heal
Assist
Explore

My two zeni..

Edited by Bajie, 04 July 2016 - 11:15 AM.


#18
wakasm

wakasm

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 111 posts
  • PSN Portable ID:wakasm
  • Xbox Gamertag:wakasm
  • Steam:wakasm

There is a lot I disagree with on this list.  

 

I disagree even more because of the title - "The unofficial, authoritative list!"

 

I find it deceptive.  Would love to see it changed to something else since I feel like it actually hurts new players than helps them, especially if you are giving ratings that are (1) only based on the current content and (2) personalized to your playstyle.

 

For instance, it doesn't take much effort to look at the role cards and figure out which characters will be better in the long run.  This should be considered.   

 

I also disagree with the use of "Foolproof" on the rating system as well.  It's completely not foolproof.   Sustain really shouldn't even be a category.  How does sustain effect anything, when most characters have access to heal effects, recharge effects, and/or other methods of cycling cards.  

 

Most heroes, especially in Rise of the Runelords can kill.  They all get powerful in their own right.  The best heroes come down to efficiency... usually through unique powers, which... I guess would mostly be a combination of explore/killing.  

 

 

I rate this thread a 3/10.   +1 for effort.  +1 for time spent.  +1 for some ok factoids.  -7 for misinformation.   Even if tongue and cheek... it rubbed me the wrong way for sure! 


Edited by wakasm, 05 July 2016 - 12:17 PM.


#19
Frivolimous

Frivolimous

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 25 posts

I'm having an issue editting the OP.  I contacted the moderators and as soon as I have access I'll update all the info using your commentaries.

 

Thank you to everyone who offered my constructive feedback!  I don't want this to be just my experiences, I want to make sure it reflects everyone's.  I of course can only use what I personally know as a starting point.  I know it isn't authoritative yet, but with all of your help it might just be one day!


  • PinkRose likes this

#20
Gfted1

Gfted1

    Forum Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 5196 posts
  • Location:Chicago, IL
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

Check your personal messages Frivolimous. :thumbsup:






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users