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The Weird, Random, and Interesting things that Fit Nowhere Else Thread


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#521
Gromnir

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But these books are freely available inside government, state and federal buildings.

so what?  you are arguing simple to make a bad point.  you suggested "burn" or "hide away" books.  the government never owned Gromnir's books or the ideas they contain.  if the government tried to come to Gromnir's home and take our bust o' nietzsche and burn it or hide it away, we would be mad as hell.  

 

converse, if tomorrow the city o' new orleans placed a mammoth sized version o' our nietzsche bust in a municipal park, who would be offended if a week later they decided to move it to a museum instead?  one or two diehard thus spoke zarathustra fans? even if there were huge uproar or resistance, then how else other than ordinary democratic process should one resolve the kerfuffle?  

 

seriously folks.

 

HA! Good Fun!



#522
Gfted1

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I mean, 725 Pelican Ave, New Orleans, LA 70114 (NO public library) is a state financed building. Inside is filled wall to wall, floor to ceiling with state financed books. Many of these books make <someone> angry for <reasons>. Why is this state funded <blight on humanity> acceptable?



#523
Gromnir

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I mean, 725 Pelican Ave, New Orleans, LA 70114 (NO public library) is a state financed building. Inside is filled wall to wall, floor to ceiling with state financed books. Many of these books make <someone> angry for <reasons>. Why is this state funded <blight on humanity> acceptable?

if the city of new orleans decided to get rid of their library, what other than the democratic process would or should stop them from doing so? 

 

you aren't making sense.

 

HA! Good Fun!



#524
Wrath of Dagon

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Meanwhile the Lenin statue is still there: http://www.saint-pet...oshchad-lenina/   Many have been removed, but not this one, not because most people admire Lenin, but because it's an iconic statue and a pivotal moment in history.



#525
Gfted1

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Isnt that the exact rationale for the various book burnings throughout history?



#526
Gorgon

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So apparently the FTC has sent warning letters to a bunch of celebrities about promoting brands without disclosing the relationship. This sounds insane to me. I think it is dumb that people buy stuff because celebrities are into it, but I think it is even dumber that the government feels the need to get involved in it.

A conflict of interest in the life or death decision of choosing the right moisturizer ?



#527
Gorgon

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I kinda get why they would do that though. Imagine Jennifer Lopez is sponsored by a beauty brand of some sort. She is payed to promote it on social media. The brand becomes commonly associated with her. 

 

Now whatever appearance she makes, the late show, Jimmy Kimmel, whatever. Those broadcasting companies are now actively promoting Jennifer Lopez's beauty brand because of the heavy association between the two. That's why you need disclosure.



#528
Gromnir

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Isnt that the exact rationale for the various book burnings throughout history?

eh?

 

who are you talking to?

 

what book burnings do you see paralleling the placing o' statues into a museum rather than having 'em public displayed?

 

go ahead and try to take Gromnir's books, or gifted's books?  Constitution protects. at the same time, your link includes burnings of books by private citizens.  such burnings is Protected here in the US, in case you were unaware.  wanna make a political statement by burning the right stuff?  go for it.

 

at the same time, "hide" away books in a government building where folks can voluntarily visit (or not) and still see 'em and read 'em.  one wonders what might we call such a building to house books?  

 

am knowing you think there is a parallel, but you ain't actual making one.  

 

HA! Good Fun!



#529
Guard Dog

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Taking books off the required reading list and banning them are not the same thing by any means. I'm a bit dubious on what can be accomplished forcing students to read books someone other than them thought were important. I think they would be better served being able to choose from a list of 100 or so titles and be tested on those. That's for K-12. The worst thing you can do to a kid is turn reading into a chore.

 

Yes I'm talking about you J.D Salinger. Catcher in the Rye was the worst-book-ever. That is a week of my life I'll never get back!

 

And Dickens, your Great Expectations wasn't so great either... cool plot twist though. Got to hand it to you there.


Edited by Guard Dog, 19 May 2017 - 12:39 PM.


#530
Hurlshot

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Meanwhile the Lenin statue is still there: http://www.saint-pet...oshchad-lenina/   Many have been removed, but not this one, not because most people admire Lenin, but because it's an iconic statue and a pivotal moment in history.

 

Sure, which is why the Andrew Jackson statue in NO isn't going anywhere. It is iconic. 



#531
Gfted1

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The obvious parallel is, both the public library and public parks (or wherever these statues were), are financed by the state/city. If the rationale is to remove offensive <stuff> from public view then where is the line drawn? Aside, I honestly had no idea that the Constitution protects books. What other mediums are protected? Paintings? Obviously statues do not enjoy such protection. Sincere question; if enough NA's got together could they force the covering of Mt. Rushmore with a giant curtain, for example?

#532
Gromnir

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Taking books off the required reading list and banning them are not the same thing by any means. I'm a bit dubious on what can be accomplished forcing students to read books someone other than them thought were important. I think they would be better served being able to choose from a list of 100 or so titles and be tested on those. That's for K-12. The worst thing you can do to a kid is turn reading into a chore.

 

Yes I'm talking about you J.D Salinger. Catcher in the Rye was the worst-book-ever. That is a week of my life I'll never get back!

to be fair, there is Constitutional limitations regarding what books can be exorcised from school reading lists.  is quite ambiguous what such limits is, but most attempts to ban individual books fail in the courts 'cause reasons for doing so is too transparent content-based prohibitions. typical cannot remove books from shelves simply 'cause the state doesn't like the message. one o' the justifications by the courts for defending school/library books from banning is the educational value o' books.

 

even so, the statues and memorials is viewed different than books, for what we would think would be obvious reasons. huckleberry finn may offend or trigger or whatever is the in vogue language o' the day, but while people may be offended by concepts in the book, twain's book gotta be read extreme narrow to be seen as advocating racism.  have somebody at hurlshot's school actual teach advocacy o' racism using huckleberry finn would last 'bout 10 seconds, no? confederate flags (which again, only gained usage during and after the civil war) and statues of folks who is inextricable linked with the perpetuation o' slavery is gonna understandable annoy many.  is the statue o' jefferson davis having an educational purpose?  is the jefferson davis statute in fact being used to educate people 'bout the inadequacy o' a decentralized government in times o' crisis?  is no doubt why you got a grand old statue to show how bad were the situation jefferson davis were facing.  

 

make an enormous statue o' a drinking fountain with the label "colored" 'pon it. do it up in bronze or marble.  maybe have some famous southern politician standing next to the fountain... or not. set it down in the center o' charleston south carolina. private property?  not much the government can do.  thank goodness. but public property?  tell us it represents decades o' southern traditions.  tell us the folks o' charleston shouldn't be able to ask for the removal o' the statue to a museum rather than a park.  even if gifted thinks the statue has educational value, you still thinks folks in charleston should have no say in removal?

 

and yes, statues enjoy same protections as paintings.  gifted's painting or Gromnir's painting enjoys protection. state wanna tell gifted he cant have a statue o' a gold drone displayed in his gallery or home?  such ain't gonna work.  converse, some city hall yutz gives gifted permission to display his statue in the richard j. daley and it not mean we is stuck having to endure gifted's statue in perpetuity. 

 

HA! Good Fun!


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#533
Guard Dog

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Hmmm.... books... statues... there were two different conversations right? If not I might have missed something



#534
Guard Dog

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Meanwhile the Lenin statue is still there: http://www.saint-pet...oshchad-lenina/   Many have been removed, but not this one, not because most people admire Lenin, but because it's an iconic statue and a pivotal moment in history.

 

Sure, which is why the Andrew Jackson statue in NO isn't going anywhere. It is iconic. 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=VL7XS_8qgXM


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#535
Hurlshot

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Geez, that 8th grader pulled 1.8 million views on his class project. That's impressive.



#536
Guard Dog

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OK, after rereading I see where Gfted was going. My mistake.



#537
Gromnir

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am knowing this is likely to confuse the matter, but we should mention how most o' the relevant first amendment art cases deal with living artists. try and silence a living artist who has already been given permission to display his art is tending to be repugnant to the constitution. artist don't get a perpetual right to display his work, but try and remove a work immediate 'cause o' public response is gonna be troublesome. the first amendment protections is, with a few confusing exceptions, a prohibition on the state in defense o' a speaker's fundamental rights.

 

there is  an implied right (5-4 decision) to receive a speaker's message, and such a right has been used infrequent to protect against the prohibition o' books. the educational value o' books typical outweigh the weak community interest to suppressing vulgarity or offensiveness. however, in cases concerning State (fed, state, local) commision o' a work, located on public property wherein the original artist is deceased, such cases typical die for simple lack o' standing.  the speaker needing protection is not in court to protest.  the message o' the original artist ain't diminished by moving a statue to a museum anymore than is a book diminished by placing it in a library.  prevent removal o' a statue nominal owned by State on public property is a tough case particular with a temporal remote created work o' art and no living speaker/artist to protect.

 

HA! Good Fun!



#538
redneckdevil

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I'm still pissed the schools banned my favorite books growing up, scary stories to tell in the dark. The art style and stories gave me my love for horror and accepted and finally bonded with my dad with our family times of watching horror movies.

Time to go see if I can find those books on amazon

#539
Raithe

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So because the national park won't let a young-earth creationist collect rocks....

 

Creationist sues the Grand Canyon for religious discrimination


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#540
Guard Dog

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I'm still pissed the schools banned my favorite books growing up, scary stories to tell in the dark. The art style and stories gave me my love for horror and accepted and finally bonded with my dad with our family times of watching horror movies.

Time to go see if I can find those books on amazon

What books?






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