Steam Refund deters buggy game releases

[Fardragon]

Or, maybe Steam got wind of Buggy Batman, and decided it would be the ideal time to implement thier refund policy...

[Ganrich]

 

 

Gamers will soon start to demand the same from GOG and other digital outlets.

 

 

GOG had refund policy months before STEAM. 

https://www.gog.com/support/website_help/money_back_guarantee

 

I think it's bad timing. Steam refund stuff came into the door like right before the games release, so everyone still had it in mind when this turd got released.

Steam also being the biggest platform didn't help either. You can't release a bad PC port on a platform that houses the vast majority of your audience just after it implements a refund policy and not expect backlash. It was a stupid move on WBs part. It played well enough for me though. Dunno how... I did get some huge frame drops when calling in the batmobile most of the time, but it leveled out after a few seconds. It was playable, but only just. I am not as snooty about frames in a single player game as many PC players are (in multiplayer games I don't play with bad frames though), but I will definitely wait a while for patches before attempting New Game +. Still like Asylum the most.

[Blarghagh]

Or, maybe Steam got wind of Buggy Batman, and decided it would be the ideal time to implement thier refund policy...

 

Steam usually doesn't act fast. I'd say this is more a response to the last Assassin's Creed.

[ktchong]

And you know very well that there are rules of refunds and returning a working and used tools is impossible. Unless US have more crappy law than Europe. Of course people will TRY to abuse their privilege nothing new here. But it doesn't justify a green light for publishers to sell broken products without the possibility to return it.

If you like to be cheated by sellers then by all means no one is forcing you to use refunds 

 

 

The EU does have very significantly stronger consumer protection and privacy laws  than the US.  That is a common sense for everyone except delusional Republicans-in-denial who detest "European socialism" and believe  "the US is number-one" in everything.

Edited July 3, 2015 by ktchong

[Gizmo]

And you know very well that there are rules of refunds and returning a working and used tools is impossible.

People do it all the time; especially at hardware stores, and places like Wal*mart. Tools, clothes... Anything they can get away with. Just ask anyone that works at those places.

 

If you like to be cheated by sellers then by all means no one is forcing you to use refunds

What about the sellers getting cheated? This happens all the time, all over the world; or do they not count in your world view?

 

Customers routinely by clothes to wear to parties, then return them the next day for a refund. I'm pretty sure that customers cheat (and outright steel from) retailers far ~far more than retailers cheat their customers.

Edited July 4, 2015 by Gizmo

[Humanoid]

Sellers need to have a return policy that at minimum complies with the law on consumer rights. Sometimes these policies exceed the minimum legislated rights, such as the policy Steam have set in place. This is not done out of the kindness of their hearts, it is because it is more economical to have a broader net that sometimes gives an unjustified refund where it's not warranted, compared to the cost of scrutinising every single return carefully.

 

The cost of the occasional unscrupulous customer gaming the system is dwarfed by the cost of implementing a system to prevent that. So don't cry for Steam or Wal-mart or whatever, they're simply implementing the policy most cost-effective to themselves.

Edited July 4, 2015 by Humanoid

[Gizmo]

Sellers need to have a return policy that at minimum complies with the law on consumer rights. Sometimes these policies exceed the minimum legislated rights, such as the policy Steam have set in place. This is not done out of the kindness of their hearts, it is because it is more economical to have a broader net that sometimes gives an unjustified refund where it's not warranted, compared to the cost of scrutinising every single return carefully.

 

The cost of the occasional unscrupulous customer gaming the system is dwarfed by the cost of implementing a system to prevent that. So don't cry for Steam or Wal-mart or whatever, they're simply implementing the policy most cost-effective to themselves.

It's not them, it's the mentality this fosters. It creates a populace that respects no one unless they can be hurt by them... and it trickles down to the independent [small] vendors getting treated the same way by the same crap individuals that get away with it with the bigger retailers that you say don't care (that much) about it. Edited July 4, 2015 by Gizmo

[Humanoid]

Well in retail, or anything sold under the wholesale model in general, the individual vendors still have control over their own policies. A customer might feel entitled to more than the law allows, but it's up to the discretion of the vendor whether to allow that extra leeway.

 

The is more of a problem under the agency model of sales such as Steam, where you're bound by whatever policies they can unilaterally apply. I'm a little torn about it since it seems they've decided the policy applies retrospectively, which is a fraught issue with any agreement. But then again it's an economic decision for the publisher/developer whether the extra income from being able to sell on Steam outweighs the loss in having to agree to their possibly overgenerous return policy. I'd assume in pretty much every case it absolutely would.

 

Personally I think the only legitimate grievance with the move may be if Steam takes money back from partners when they issue refunds for games bought before the current refund policy was in place - I'm not sure what exactly happens when that kind of refund happens.

[Fardragon]

 

And you know very well that there are rules of refunds and returning a working and used tools is impossible.

People do it all the time; especially at hardware stores, and places like Wal*mart. Tools, clothes... Anything they can get away with. Just ask anyone that works at those places.

 

If you like to be cheated by sellers then by all means no one is forcing you to use refunds

What about the sellers getting cheated? This happens all the time, all over the world; or do they not count in your world view?

 

Customers routinely by clothes to wear to parties, then return them the next day for a refund. I'm pretty sure that customers cheat (and outright steel from) retailers far ~far more than retailers cheat their customers.

 

You are making unfounded assumptions about the rest of the world based on fairly narrow experience.

 

If you tried to return a used lawnmower to a hardware shop in the UK, the most likely outcome is you would be told to get lost (politely). There is a slim chance you would be given a like for like exchange, roughly equal to the chance that the police would be called and you would be charged with fraud.

Edited July 4, 2015 by Fardragon

[Gizmo]

 

Customers routinely by clothes to wear to parties, then return them the next day for a refund. I'm pretty sure that customers cheat (and outright steel from) retailers far ~far more than retailers cheat their customers.

You are making unfounded assumptions about the rest of the world based on fairly narrow experience.

 

Do you truly think so?

 

If you tried to return a used lawnmower to a hardware shop in the UK, the most likely outcome is you would be told to get lost (politely). There is a slim chance you would be given a like for like exchange, roughly equal to the chance that the police would be called and you would be charged with fraud.

That example was about Wal*marts, Lowes, and Home Depot... Are you so certain about B&Q? Edited July 4, 2015 by Gizmo

[Mamoulian War]

And are you so certain, that all people in all other countries are so much prone to misuse their own rights as americans in your examples do?

[Bartimaeus]

As some people in America do...illegally or at least immorally, I might add.

Edited July 4, 2015 by Bartimaeus

[Fardragon]

And are you so certain, that all people in all other countries are so much prone to misuse their own rights as americans in your examples do?

 

 

They only have a "right" to a refund if the item sold is "unfit for purpose"*. If the item sold is working, or has clearly been used before becoming broken, the retailer has the right to tell the customer to take a hike. If it looks like the item was deliberately broken, that is fraud, and the police will be called - especially if it is a big retailer like B&Q.

 

My wife had a hard time getting a refund on a pair of trousers she bought from M&S, even though one leg was several inches longer than the other!

 

 

*This is UK law, but I think the rest of the EU is the same.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Fardragon

[Mamoulian War]

As some people in America do...illegally or at least immorally, I might add.

Yes, that was my point... Some people are not all people, and putting me into same league with these people offends me... I as a customer have my rights. And finaly these rights starts to be recognised in digital world as well...

[Bartimaeus]

 

As some people in America do...illegally or at least immorally, I might add.

Yes, that was my point... Some people are not all people, and putting me into same league with these people offends me... I as a customer have my rights. And finaly these rights starts to be recognised in digital world as well...

 

 

That's actually what I was trying to say, haha: the consumer rights of all shouldn't be stomped on because of the illegal behavior of some. It is unfortunate that it happens, though...

Edited July 6, 2015 by Bartimaeus

[Mamoulian War]

Well yeah, and besides most of the time this unethical behaviour is already calculated into margins, which we all pay for anyway.