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Backer Beta Build 333 is live!

Backer Beta Update Patch

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51 replies to this topic

#21
Bryy

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Unexpected but very nice. The Beastiary XP is a step in the right direction but still seems too little.


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#22
Elzarath

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Very excited about the changes (especially XP changes). Thanks team!

#23
Corivar

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Experience Points
We decided to add a few more ways to gain experience points to increase the regularity that XP is rewarded throughout the game. We've added minor bestiary, exploration, lock, and trap XP rewards. Bestiary XP is rewarded when new entries are unlocked in the Bestiary page in the Journal, and will stop being rewarded if the entry is complete. Exploration XP is given out when new areas and landmarks are discovered in the world.

 

 

Completely pointless. Remove all of this.

 

Yep. With combat in PoE being more involved than the infinity engine games, I never expected to go unrewarded for the effort. All this extra trouble to try and balance a problem they created in the first place. When I initially backed this on kickstarter I never expected such a radical depature from the games this was to be the spiritual successor to. I will wait patiently until release and hope to be proven wrong, but as of right now i am very disapointed I contributed anything.


Edited by Corivar, 26 October 2014 - 03:39 PM.


#24
DrBrian

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That gives experience for kills without allowing chain farming. Geez some are never satisfied.



#25
Stun

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Experience Points
We decided to add a few more ways to gain experience points to increase the regularity that XP is rewarded throughout the game. We've added minor bestiary, exploration, lock, and trap XP rewards. Bestiary XP is rewarded when new entries are unlocked in the Bestiary page in the Journal, and will stop being rewarded if the entry is complete. Exploration XP is given out when new areas and landmarks are discovered in the world.[/size]

 
Completely pointless. Remove all of this.

Rofl!

Dear Sore Loser,

I will refrain from hurling my usual I told you so's in your general direction, and will also spare you my obligatory victory dance. But I do feel the need to call you out on your repeated claims from a couple of months ago, that this particular XP issue is 1)a moot point; 2) set in stone; 3) Unchangeable; 4) A total waste of time to discuss (see 2 & 3).

As it is now plain for all to see, your arguments (all 4 of them) have proven to be so much nonsense. A change in developer philosophy was made, and relatively quickly, in fact (we didn't have to wait for a sequel, for example) But there's no point in whining about it. Perhaps NOW is the time for your side to wipe away your crocodile tears and show your support for Obsidian. They have listened to our feedback. Rejoice. PoE will be a better game as a result.

Sincerely,

Stun

Edited by Stun, 27 October 2014 - 04:47 AM.


#26
Sensuki

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XP rewards still aren't perfect - Lock and Trap XP needs to go and Exploration XP needs a re-think as well IMO. 



#27
Stun

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I'm ambivalent about Lock XP, but Trap XP is something I support wholeheartedly. Traps are 'hostile' elements of adventuring. In a good RPG they constitute a direct threat. It makes sense that the party be rewarded for choosing to deal with that threat. As for Exploration XP... I'll take it. The IE games didn't have it but whatever. If a game is going to focus on exploration, then it makes sense that the character growth process be tied to it.

As for Bestiary XP....well.... baby steps. They're on the right path here. I have yet to do a run with Beta ver. 333 so I'll reserve full judgment until I do. But it sounds like a decent middle ground between people who want XP for every kill vs. People who suffer from paranoid schizophrenia whenever the spectre of "grinding" shows up.

Edited by Stun, 27 October 2014 - 05:17 AM.

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#28
Sensuki

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In PE you recover the traps though, that's the reward for disarming them.

 

I think Exploration XP should be dealt differently. XP rewarded for just entering a map is plain dumb. The XP should be rewarded for uncovering the map's secrets - the hidden stashes, solving puzzles, scripted interaction stuff, finding a certain hidden encounter on the map etc


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#29
BAdler

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EDIT: I forgot to add that the Mac build is now available for download from Steam! The Linux build still has a problem with loading and unloading asset bundles. Unity knows about the issue and we will release the Linux build once they post a fix. Thanks for the patience.

 

Incredible. Any ETA? Another month?

 

Unfortunately, it isn't something that Obsidian has the ability to fix directly without completely redoing how we are loading and unloading assets. I will give more information as I get more info from Adam.


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#30
PrimeHydra

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Honestly, if you want to play games, install Windows. It's great when publishers aim to support Linux, but expecting them to make it a high priority is just silly. Dual boot Windows/Linux FTW.



#31
Foolmonkey

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Any extras you find should be a reward in itself (items, extra quest, esthetically pleasing scenery) Exploration xp is a horrible idea. It encourages us to run around to every environment we can just to level our character but have absolutely no reason to be there.

 

A bestiary is neat, but a detailed pokedex that gives xp in this game feels bad. After I fill my pokedex with Lion info, I'll just stealth around every lion I see from now on because they don't give me anything? KISS, like the Torment list. Simple pictures, clever paragraph you read, and never go back to it again.

 

Giving no killing xp is also a horrible idea. Why not keep the IE guidelines and let the classic feel of the game shine through!? Kill something, grab some xp. You could gradually reduce the xp amount per creature so grinding would be less of an issue.



#32
Stun

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Any extras you find should be a reward in itself (items, extra quest, esthetically pleasing scenery) Exploration xp is a horrible idea. It encourages us to run around to every environment we can just to level our character but have absolutely no reason to be there.

3 things. First, Obsidian has said, and repeated, that Exploration will be a focus of this game. So if you see no reason to explore, then this is the wrong game for you.

Second, This is not an either/or, nor should it ever be. The rewards for exploration should be all of the above. Exp, loot, scenery, discoveries, quests, combat, humor, terror, gaming memories etc. etc. I've yet to see a good argument made that eliminating any of these makes for a better gaming experience.

Third, I doubt there will be enough exploration XP to make a substantial difference in the grand scheme of things. That is to say, one who decides not to explore every single map will probably not end the game tragically under-leveled, or whatever the worry is.

Edited by Stun, 27 October 2014 - 06:41 PM.

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#33
Sensuki

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I don't think rewarding players for just entering an area is a good idea though. The XP rewards should be for finding things IN the area - such as the hidden caches and specific locations / encounters.

In the Dyrford Crossing for example, instead of XP for entering the area, XP should be rewarded for finding the hidden compartment in the Ruins wall, getting to the body with the note through the spider cave, finding the dungeon entrance and perhaps finding the Menpwgra/Forest Lurker encounter.

Edited by Sensuki, 28 October 2014 - 01:04 AM.

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#34
prodigydancer

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Giving no killing xp is also a horrible idea.

And so we start yet another round of this discussion. :))



#35
Foolmonkey

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I've yet to see a good argument made that eliminating any of these makes for a better gaming experience.

Third, I doubt there will be enough exploration XP to make a substantial difference in the grand scheme of things. That is to say, one who decides not to explore every single map will probably not end the game tragically under-leveled, or whatever the worry is.



Well you help make the point right there! If it doesn't add much to leveling, then dont put it in the game. Keep it simple!

Exploring is great, and I will be all over the maps to see artwork, find quests, and hidden items. Throwing miniscule xp my way for walking down path #2 feels like preschool.

#36
GreyFox

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Not all traps are nor should they be recoverable though...disarm a pressure plate that drops a boulder...yea let me take that boulder with me...

 

Recovering a disarmed trap as a reward is lame, much lamer than a small amount of XP for clearing it.



#37
Sensuki

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BG1, IWD1 didn't have trap xp - worked much better there.

#38
Marceror

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I've yet to see a good argument made that eliminating any of these makes for a better gaming experience.
Third, I doubt there will be enough exploration XP to make a substantial difference in the grand scheme of things. That is to say, one who decides not to explore every single map will probably not end the game tragically under-leveled, or whatever the worry is.


Well you help make the point right there! If it doesn't add much to leveling, then dont put it in the game. Keep it simple!
Exploring is great, and I will be all over the maps to see artwork, find quests, and hidden items. Throwing miniscule xp my way for walking down path #2 feels like preschool.
Disagree that this helps make the point. All he saying is that the additional xp won't unbalance the game. That's not an argument for removing it. Gaining xp is a positive experience in a game like this, but you want the amounts to be in balance. So what we're seeing here seems to be all good.

Edited by Marceror, 28 October 2014 - 11:13 AM.


#39
Stun

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Well you help make the point right there! If it doesn't add much to leveling, then dont put it in the game. Keep it simple!

Aah. You're one of those gamers. I believe Bioware used that same logic to justify the homogenous blandness of the Dragon Age games. For example, there isn't much functional difference between a mace and a hammer, therefore, lets eliminate one of them. Then lets go down the list and do that with everything. Don't need 11 character classes when 3 will suffice. Don't need 7 races when we can make do with just one. etc.

That's called Streamlining. It's a cancer on everything that RPGs stand for.
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#40
Stun

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BG1, IWD1 didn't have trap xp - worked much better there.

No it didn't. BG2 is a better game.
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