Modding Pre-Production: Who's interested?

[Osvir]

Hi!

So, I've been thinking a bit about some additions I want to add into Pillars of Eternity already and I thought it could be nice to perhaps gather some people together and discuss ideas, form some manuscripts for Custom Quests, Custom NPCs, Custom Companions, Custom Maps etc. etc. to get some concepts going.

You might ask:
"Why?? This is too early to discuss things like this!!"

Because it is wise, I suppose. I have some concepts drawn out in my head that I know won't be in (Items, Quests, Companions) and getting a clear picture before the game is out gives us a bit of a headstart.

Here's a bit of a "guidelines" list that I'm following:

 

1. First: Why? How?
- Why do you want to create custom contents? What's the goal? How do you achieve this goal? These are important questions to ask yourself and answer yourself. As a gamer who has been playing lots of Terraria & Starbound, it is easy to get lost if you don't have an idea of what you want to build or how you want to build it.

 

I've started countless worlds of Terraria and Starbound on a whim, I've been excited, I've explored, I've built, but then suddenly I get exhausted and I don't know what else to do and I just drop the games for a while. The same thing has happened when I've created things in WarEdit, StarEdit, Shadowrun: Returns Editor, Shadowgrounds Editor, Baldur's Gate NPC projects, Neverwinter Nights etc. etc. etc.

If you don't know what you want to create, how are you going to create it? Well, this hasn't been a problem for me personally. I know what I've wanted and what I want to create, my issue is "how to proceed?", which brings me to the next point rather elegantly:

2. Manuscript

- Creating a manuscript is important because it becomes a reference list. I've created a lot of things "on the fly" with a spontaneous attitude, but it is easy to get writer's block, or "creative block" and suddenly you sit with a 10% finished product that you don't know what to do with. Creating a manuscript before creating anything physically will help me and anyone else to get a clear vision of what is to be created.

Spontanity is nice and all, it allows for way more creative freedom "You can create anything!!", but therein lies the problem as well. Abundance means it'll never end, it'll never get finished. There's only Point A, but there's no Point B. A manuscript gives a clear view of where it starts, and where it ends.

 

These are just some examples out of the top of my head, I've dumbed them down but it's just to portray a concept of what a manuscript "could" be. 

 

Example #1: Custom Class: Soul Gambler

[The Gambler is, as the name implies, someone who gambles with souls. It is someone who is cursed to linger in limbo of being an ordinary person and a Wizard. A Wild Mage~
- Abilities/Spell-type: Wild Magic, try to cast a Fireball and you might instead cast polymorph, on yourself. Additionally the Soul Gambler is inspired by "The Gambler" from the Marvel Universe, Enchanting Equipment & Throwing Weapons is a focus.
** NOTE: Work in progress: Need to learn more about the official Wild Magic handling in Pillars of Eternity. If there is Wild Magic builds, how Wild Magic is built in the lore. This will affect how the Soul Gambler will be written and their abilities]

Example #2: Custom Quest: Fetch Alpha Wolf Trophy
[Part 1: Interior-Talk to Cap'n Concept (NPC is facing a wall/chest)
Narration: "Oh! You startled me there! How can I help you?"
- Choice 1: "Yes. Who are you?" (NPC Information)
- Choice 2: "It seems you are looking for something... could I help you?" (Quest Inquiry)
- Choice 3: "Sorry to bother you." (Leave)

IF Choice 2 is picked: Narration: "Hmm... yes... yes maybe you can... in fact I have blah blah blah... could you get it for me?" (Yes/No)]

 

I've always known that a Manuscript is a really nice addition to keeping a project going straight, but I've been a bit lazy and it isn't a necessary part. It is 100% optional.

Out of the many games with editors I've played around with, many times I've been feature complete 80%-90% but I just don't know how to wrap my custom content and instead of figuring it out I abandon it. This is a problem you won't have if you have a complete manuscript.

 

Some comparison scenarios:

Person A does not write a manuscript and starts creating right away. Some bumps on the road. Takes 5 months to finish.
Person B does write a manuscript. Takes 1 month to write the manuscript. Takes 3 months to finish.

Person C does not write a manuscript. Works on content for 2 months, gets "creative blocked" and gives up.

 

I can't stress enough how valuable a manuscript is and time efficient it is. You might have a clear vision right now, right this minute, or this entire week of what you want to do and you jump into creating stuff without a manuscript because hey, you know exactly what you want to do right? (Oh how I have fallen into this so many times)

 

Well, that week passes, and suddenly that vision is blurred and... what was it you wanted to create now again? All of those details, narration, textures, NPC names, quests, areas, weapons etc. etc. all of that which you had in your mind's eye so clearly a week ago, most of it gone from your mind. But... if only you had had a manuscript, you wouldn't have forgotten

Manuscripts FTW.

 

3. Creation (Mechanical)

- With the manuscript done you're prepared mentally, you'll have a way easier time creating the content you want to create (as continuously stated: MANUSCRIPTS OWNZ, ALRIGHT!?). This step is a bit self-explanatory. Though there's another way of doing it as well if you lack skills, patience/time or motivation; that is to write a detailed manuscript, post it on a relative forum and then see if anyone picks it up. Heck, someone might be on the other side than you, they have the skills, they have the motivation, they have patience and time but they just don't have any inspiration... they don't have your manuscript

 

There's also always a chance that someone else would want to join in on the project as well, or give feedback (and you can edit/update your manuscript to more interesting/deeper/detailed levels etc. etc.).

 

We could call a manuscript creator an indirect content creator~ or a theoretical content creator. Anyways, this stage is only meant to create a "rough draft". If you create a Quest, make it simple and dumbed down at first. Make triggers, walk-paths, NPCs etc. etc. all work and spawn right before adding any narration. Hence "Mechanical", you want the cogwheels of your content to work, you can do the paint-job later.

 

4. Creation (Narrative)

- Well, when all of the cogs are turning in just the right way, add dialogue and narration. This is also a mechanical+polish step. There's cogwheels in the narrative as well, and jumping between 3 & 4 is surely going to happen a lot.

 

5. Beta+Feedback+Bugs

- Self-explanatory. Get some friends or people to try out an Alpha/Beta build, get feedback, fix bugs.

 

6. Publish

 

Final word:

With this "guidelines" list written, I'm curious: Who'd be interested in discussing, writing and throwing ideas together with me and attempt to be an early bird custom creator when the game ships? We'd focus on step 1 & 2, and I believe that this is a very ripe time to start thinking about some custom content to aim for and at this stage 1 & 2 are really the only 2 steps we can do as they lean more towards "project planning", "conceptual planning" and the "narrative" side. Well, we can research into Unity much more as well (A step I excluded).

We've got several months to create something very interesting, narratively.

I'm not going to lie, I am hoping this thread spurrs some friendly creative competition, and I hope you find these guidelines helpful. If you're a lurker or someone who wants to work solo or already have a group to work with *thumbs up* go for it women or men :D the more the merrier.

I've already begun with some of my own manuscripts *shots fired*

Edited June 12, 2014 by Osvir

[Zwiebelchen]

I've made mods for both NWN and WC3 in the past. My most popular work, however, is Gaias Retaliation ORPG, a custom map for WC3 with now almost 100.000 downloads:

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/gaias-retaliation-orpg-v1-2a-8-a-144066/?prev=status%3Da%26u%3DZwiebelchen

 

It's a featured project and director's cut on the most active WC3 community website.

 

 

As I simply don't have the time to actively create any content from the ground-up anymore, I'd like to go into modelling territories for PoE (in case the game turns out to be awesome). Which means landscapes and dungeon designs.

But I could also think about creating new armor and weapon models aswell, depending on how easy they can be implemented.

 

I'll create landscapes and dungeons (with the appropriate and required normal and occlusion maps) as open source files and probably also write a tutorial on how to create them. Maybe I'll also accept requests. But I won't do any scripting or actual gameplay and leave those backgrounds free for use to the community.

 

But this rises and falls with how much support obsidian will provide for the modding community and how easy it is to implement custom scripts, triggers, encounters and maps. But I'll definitely give it a try.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Zwiebelchen

[NWN_babaYaga]

hmm,

 

when i started modding games the first motivation was "why didnt they included that" or more I WANT that content, map or whatever in this game because i like this game and the engine seems to be good for me to work with. So my first motivation always is something is "missing" for me or that i would be great to have it and then I start thinking about of all the components i have to do to complete the whole thing. Pretty easy when it is just some model, map or whatever because you already have established the goal in your mind and the details follow while working on it. It´s an organic process for me where the thing completes itself during the work automaticaly. What i mean by that is i did some D&D underdark caves for NWN and while working on it i ran trough the tunnel system, took screenshots- looked at original underdark art and thought about what i could add or what details would give it another bit or more ambience etc.!

 

And i never wrote a detailed manuscript down, i just had the image or the story in mind wrote down key aspects and let the work just grow step by step coming closer to the finale.

 

I also feel that the great days of big mod Teams are over. Maybe it´s just me who sees this but when i compare the golden days of mod teams (half life or nwn etc.) to now a days i see more and more people with less patience and dedication. Single dedicated people are found everywhere but Teams... i dont know. Maybe it´s just that people are more honest about what they realy want to do and so they just focus on their very OWN project that they would love to see in a game rather then a big project where they dont controll every aspect of it. Once you give away your time for a project that may take more then a year of development you realy have to have 101 % faith in that. I dont know... but for me a project that is my own baby is definately be finished when i want it and so i started to focus only on my own work. Not being dependant on others, not that it is not cool but it´s just that to many mods have gone into oblivion and time was wasted on a massive scale for everyone involved. And who realy wants that in the end?

 

So for PE for me it depends purely on the game later once i have played it and i know what _I can do and what definetely not. So i dont waste any thought right now for something that is pure speculation... for that i have a game that i mod right now NWN!

And i think it is important to know the game and the engine with first hand experience to know that you realy want to mod that. Without real experience everything is like "theory" and who knows...

Edited June 12, 2014 by NWN_babaYaga

[Osvir]

I've started writing a questline idea a bit, but if anyone's interested I'd like to bounce it a bit

Currently I'm calling the quest "hungry children" and... it's kind of self-explanatory in a world with how the undead are handled in Pillars of Eternity it's a working title.

The quest begins when you're walking in the city, daytime, in some area with lots of people. A child is running and screaming for help and his/her father is chasing after him with a cleaver.

"What do you choose to do?"

Now, I'm thinking of having this be either:
A) A domestic fight, the father has treated his child poorly in some way (child abuse) and the child has resisted and bit the father
B) The child has been treated by a mad animancer, used as a subject to perfect his own techniques of immortality, the child bit the father in hunger.

Regardless of what's decided on, the child disappears in the commotion. The father is apprehended and then you can go to prison to interrogate him and/or talk to the city guard to uncover that something is going on the city... people are missing/disappearing.

There is a bit of a moral dilemma here that I want to invoke in the Player. Because the Player might know about the cannibalistic nature of fampyrs/darguls, and might instantly think "This kid is a monster! Let's cut him down!" or "I must protect this child!" only to later be faced with "This child is a monster! Damn!". But then again.. what if this is simply a crazed tyrannic father? Decisions, decisions. You'll be able to talk to the child later down the quest and either find out that the child is in fact a monster by unfortunate circumstance, or that one of the child's friends (who happen to be...? ) had taught the child to "bite" the father if he was abusing.

Moving on, you'll eventually uncover more and more, and find the culprit* through a series of investigations. One scene I can think of is, you're entering a dark "room" and you see a child facing a wall. When you reach the child and talk to him/her you'll start a dialogue that should invoke a creepy feeling in the Player. As the dialogue continues you'll see one child at a time appear along the edges of the fog of war (surrounding the player party more and more).

The quest is completed when the monsters have been dealt with.

* Unless the culprit has been eaten himself by his own creation's hunger.

What do you think? Suggestions? Feedback?

Edited June 18, 2014 by Osvir