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Armour & weapon designs - a plea (part III).

weapons design aesthetic inspiration art armour

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#1
Karranthain

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Previous parts :

1) http://forums.obsidi...designs-a-plea/

2) http://forums.obsidi...a-plea-part-ii/

Opening post :

One thing that I highly dislike about modern RPGs are the outlandish and outright ugly armour and designs. If you'd allow me some examples (incoming hyperbole and large images) :


This

Posted Image


Certainly looks better than this :

Posted Image

Second example :


Posted Image



Posted Image


In the examples, I've juxtaposed somewhat ornamental and a bit fantasy looking pieces of equipment with ones that look more like toys (which I consider to be a general tendency in fantasy cRPGS). Is the continuing urge for so called "epicness" really worth it? I think there's plenty of historical (and not so historical) arms and armour to draw inspiration from. Non-practical equipment is a real eye sore most of the time, IMHO.

And yes, I realize that the game is isometric, and we won't see arms and armour in great detail - but that'll only make the task that much easier.

While we're at it, please consider using something similar for item descriptions :

Posted Image


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#2
Karranthain

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This topic has undergone some changes since it first appeared on these forums; it evolved to become a place to dicuss various influences for armour & weapon designs. Feel free to share artwork, pictures etc. that you find appealing. If there's something that you'd see/not see in the PE, join the discussion!

A clarification on my stance : I'm definitely not advocating complete realism. Historical designs are, I think, a good source of inspiration, but it doesn't mean they have to be copied slavishly - taking bits and pieces out of history and using them creatively can produce very interesting results. This post best describes my preference. Verisimilitude, not necessarily realism.

And to end this little introduction, here's a quote from one of the developers :

I agree with you on all points. I'll make sure to take the spongy Mjolnir I have in my office and smite any artist who dares create unwieldy-looking weapons or crazy, S&M, cosplay outfits Posted Image. In all seriousness, I have a sneaking suspicion you'll be quite pleased with the art direction and thematic flavor of the gear in Project Eternity.


Edited by Karranthain, 17 November 2012 - 03:45 PM.


#3
GhoulishVisage

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So, I personally would prefer Obsidian going about this in one of two ways.

One, they draw inspiration from historical sources for the armor and fashion types of various cultures and they adapt those in consistent ways into the PE universe, making each of their cultures feel unique and distinct but also familiar and somewhat relateable.
This is the Witcher 2 and Dark Souls method.

Posted Image



Two, they could design their own consistent armor and fashion senses for each of their cultures, making each one feel fresh and inspired whilst also practical and realistic. This however runs the risk of looking a bit daft if they don't nail it just right.
This is the Lord of the Rings (movies) method.

Posted Image



What they should NOT do is make the armor cartoonishly exaggerated (World of Warcraft), generic and without it's own flavor (Dragon Age: Origins) or just random designs thrown about willy-nilly with no unifying themes or cultural influences one might expect a logical world to have (lots of RPGs have this problem).

Edited by GhoulishVisage, 17 November 2012 - 03:56 PM.

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#4
Karranthain

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So, I personally would prefer Obsidian going about this in one of two ways.

One, they draw inspiration from historical sources for the armor and fashion types of various cultures and they adapt those in consistent ways into the PE universe, making each of their cultures feel unique and distinct but also familiar and somewhat relateable.
This is the Witcher 2 and Dark Souls method.

Two, they could design their own consistent armor and fashion senses for each of their cultures, making each one feel fresh and inspired whilst also practical and realistic. This however runs the risk of looking a bit daft if they don't nail it just right.
This is the Lord of the Rings (movies) method.

What they should NOT do is make the armor cartoonishly exaggerated (World of Warcraft), generic and without it's own flavor (Dragon Age: Origins) or just random designs thrown about willy-nilly with no unifying themes or cultural influences one might expect a logical world to have (lots of RPGs have this problem).


Both methods have their merits - though the second, as you've noted, is particularly risky. I reckon combining these solutions (i.e. using historical influence, but only as a starting point) would probably yield the best results.

I also strongly agree that each culture in the game should (ideally) have a distinct (and coherent) visual identity.

E.g.

Vaillans would be partly inspired by Italian city states and the Renaissance fashion.

Edited by Karranthain, 17 November 2012 - 03:53 PM.

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#5
Tamerlane

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I don't know that you could call all DAO armour "generic and without its own flavour".

Unless you meant their lighter armour, in which case holy ****, that stuff was generic and without its own flavour.

#6
Vargr

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Hmm, not much to add to this discussion that hasn't been said. And the dev quote puts my fears to rest.

They did say there will be more primitive cultures in the world. As primitive as bronze age, I think was mentioned.
I hope we will be able to adorn our characters in such gear too, and nicely designed such.

This isn't really bronze age, but found this great bit of art some guy did for one of his characters in a PnP RPG.

Posted Image

I hope there will be armors of *roughly* that style in P:E.
Of course, tied to one of the more primitive cultures.
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#7
Merlkir

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That's Perkan, his stuff is awesome overall.

http://perkan.deviantart.com/

#8
Karranthain

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And here's another for the more primitive cultures, perhaps Glanfathan berserkers?

Posted Image

Gotta love those Saxon helmets.
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#9
Darth Trethon

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Posted Image


^^^THIS!!! This is just perfect. The more PE's style resembles this image right here the better. Screw realism and screw being historically accurate. I do NOT play games/watch movies/read books because they resemble reality. F reality.....if I wanted that I'd go fall asleep in a history class or watch the news or something.
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#10
Merlkir

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I think you could try a bit harder, not quite there yet.

#11
Vargr

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That's Perkan, his stuff is awesome overall.

http://perkan.deviantart.com/


Was looking through his art there. Definitely a very talented guy.

.............

...................

.............................

Damn it! Now I want a Trudvang pc-rpg...!

#12
GhoulishVisage

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Gotta love those Saxon helmets.


As I said here I personally believe the Glanfathan will be based on a Celtic culture (based on very little evidence, admittedly) and as such they'd look a bit more like this

Posted Image Posted Image
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image


The Celts were renowned for their berserkers.
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#13
Karranthain

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Gotta love those Saxon helmets.


As I said here I personally believe the Glanfathan will be based on a Celtic culture (based on very little evidence, admittedly) and as such they'd look a bit more like this

The Celts were renowned for their berserkers.


Definitely, I'm getting strong Celtic vibes just from the name. The artwork posted by Vargr fits the bill :)

This one does as well, it's a rather eclectic mix of various influences.

Posted Image

And another :

Posted Image

Edited by Karranthain, 18 November 2012 - 05:18 AM.

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#14
Darth Trethon

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Gotta love those Saxon helmets.


As I said here I personally believe the Glanfathan will be based on a Celtic culture (based on very little evidence, admittedly) and as such they'd look a bit more like this

The Celts were renowned for their berserkers.


Definitely, I'm getting strong Celtic vibes just from the name. The artwork posted by Vargr fits the bill :)

This one does as well, it's a rather eclectic mix of various influences.

Posted Image


Meh, they look like drunks caught unaware at the bar or in their pijamas(lol at the first picture in the post above) that happened to find some sword/shield/whatever laying around.....hardly epic or worth bothering with.

For the most part uncivilized brutes are not really something worth placing much focus on.....yeah they usually appear in minor faction or minor NPCs and perhaps as a companion but not really much worth paying attention to beyond taking a couple of minutes out of your game to kill.

Edited by Darth Trethon, 18 November 2012 - 05:24 AM.

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#15
Vargr

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@Karranthain

Love those! Don't like the head of the second one, but the overall vibe is great!
First one is absolutely spot on for how I hope barbarians/berserkers (the traditional ones at least) are realised in the game.


Not sure whether to bother replying to Darth Trethon or not... Is he trolling or is he not?


Ah well;


I think those barbaric images are epic as all hell. I wouldn't want to see them all over the place in P:E though. Only in more remote wilderness areas, being
removed from the civilized lands. But that's the point.

Maybe even have some nice, healthy, Howardian "Civilization vs Barbarism"- themes. That would make my day!
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#16
OldRPG'sAreGood

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Well, for some reason I couldn't post pictures, but here's a few links to some kettle hat designs, something that I'd like to see:

1.

2.

3.

4.

#17
Karranthain

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Well, for some reason I couldn't post pictures, but here's a few links to some kettle hat designs, something that I'd like to see:

1.

2.

3.

4.


You'll like this one, I bet :

Spoiler


Sallets are awesome.
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#18
Elerond

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Russian lamellar armour

Posted Image

#19
Elerond

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16th century bullet proofed infantry half-plate from Majorca, which has nice conquistador feel on it

Posted Image
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#20
Merlkir

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Russian lamellar armour

Posted Image


Bronze age Siberia iirc. There's a whole series of these paintings from a particular website, wonderful stuff.





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