ImRhoven Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 What we are also doing is adding the first expansion pack for the game to the $165 Tier (and above). now, what's the point of tiers below $165? We help to finance the project, yet we have to pay for the expansion. Without backers there would be no game, thus no expansion...I might as well cancel my pledge and wait for the "GOTY" edition, I don't want to own/pay for half a game. Would you call Baldur's Gate 2 half a game because it didn't ship with the throne of Bhaal expansion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sannom Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Otherwise, I'll keep pestering on the subject, not because I want to demand it, but because I don't know if it's feasible or not. If it is, they should consider it. If it's not, they should put the matter to rest and we'll move on. I don't think it is possible. Add-ons are already a makeshift feature that does not inspire confidence, but it becomes worse when the add-on can see its price vary depending on the client (talking about international shipping fee). Now, what's the point of tiers below $165? You still help fund the game and when you actually buy the expansion, you will still have spent less money than the people who chose a pledge with the expansion. Edited October 9, 2012 by Sannom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Adding an Xpac Addon for $25-30 could potentially raise a lot of cash in the short time left. Now I don't mean adding the Xpac to the $20 tier for free, I mean having the ability to up your pledge by another $25-30 in order to get a "free" copy of the Xpac. Theoretically this money reduces the profit from sales of the Xpac but the money would go to make the main game bigger and better, potentially increasing its sales and consequently the sales of the Xpac. Everyone is happy. Adding a $25-30 add-on for the tiers to get a 'free' copy of the expansion? That doesn't make sense. All you're doing is buying the expansion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merin Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Adding an Xpac Addon for $25-30 could potentially raise a lot of cash in the short time left. Now I don't mean adding the Xpac to the $20 tier for free, I mean having the ability to up your pledge by another $25-30 in order to get a "free" copy of the Xpac. Theoretically this money reduces the profit from sales of the Xpac but the money would go to make the main game bigger and better, potentially increasing its sales and consequently the sales of the Xpac. Everyone is happy. Adding a $25-30 add-on for the tiers to get a 'free' copy of the expansion? That doesn't make sense. All you're doing is buying the expansion. Yeah, make it $50. We are donating well above cost of the items we are being rewarded with for donating. Think of the prices as if the Pentagon was ordering it.... okay, maybe not $500 toilet seats, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Yeah, make it $50. We are donating well above cost of the items we are being rewarded with for donating. Think of the prices as if the Pentagon was ordering it.... okay, maybe not $500 toilet seats, but still. I'm all for $50-60 for an expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boger Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) You're paying just for the core game. Which will be a full one. Your not owning *half a game*. You will be owning a full game. The expansion is not going to be content that was cut from the game. been having a really long discussion with someone else about this, but suffice to say it seems like you're viewing this through the lens of ME3 day one DLC, i.e. javik. it was obviously cut from the game to make more money. that isn't what they're doing here. you are still getting everything they promised to you, the main game, and whatever other things you decided you wanted from whatever tier you went for. the expansion is a separate entity, that is being made AFTER they have completely finished the base game. basically the kickstarter, and everything connected to it, stops at the base game. they are basically giving a gift to those that can pledge that high, and who are basically spending more than enough to get the game and expansion three times over. you will still be able to get the entire game experience, that isn't going to have anything cut from it. which was all that they promised to you. what saying they're making an expansion really means is that they are committed to continuing this world. they are going to be paying for the expansion's creation at first out of their own pocket, which means obsidian is paying to make it, not us in any way, shape, form, or fashion, and then using the funds generated from PE sales. if they were using kickstarter funds to make the expansion pack, you would have a point. as things stand now you don't. they aren't ea/activision/ubisoft. they are basically trying to do something more like old world blues/mask of the betrayer. that isn't a continuation of the main story, it's a new story set in a new place. you may use your character, but you won't be losing anything from the main story/base game because of it. make sense? I understand your point of view(s), but for me it's like: they will be using our money to make the game and then sell the expansion to us, ppl who helped to "make" the game and risked their money based on Obsidian reputation. On top of that they will be making money by selling the core game and then the expansion. At the moment 55,356 backers pledged $2,518,323 that gives less than $50 average per person, why can't they make it the expansion minimum pledge(like humble bundle). It would be more fair than ridiculous $165 and would cover (only) about 11k ppl, instead of 1600 "chosen ones"...and that would make others to pledge more (imho). Edited October 10, 2012 by boger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 why can't they make it the expansion minimum pledge(like humble bundle). It would be more fair than ridiculous $165 and would cover (only) about 11k ppl, instead of 1600 chosen ones...and that would make others to pledge more (imho). You're suggesting that Obsidian put an add-on feature with Kickstarter for the expansion at some price like an additional $20.00. In a sense, make it a pre-order for the expansion? Some people might see this as simply a pre-order and funds being diverted away from the base game to the expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantousent Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 All of the money they take in from Kickstarter will go towards the main game. It will not go towards the expansion. You have not paid one red cent towards the expansion no matter what you pledge or what tier you choose. You have only paid towards the main game. If you pledge high enough, then they will include a free copy of the xpac, for which the people have not paid to make, only to purchase. in other words, let's say you pay $10 for two popcorns and you get a free soda. If popcorn is priced at $5 and you pay $10 for two and get an extra soda, you haven't paid a damned thing for the soda. Someone might have gone in with a friend and bought two popcorns and still gotten a free soda. They're just lucky. You go in and only buy one popcorn, you're out of luck but you're sure as hell not paying for something you don't get. If I were going to go cowboy on an issue, I swear to God it would be this one. 1 Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boger Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 why can't they make it the expansion minimum pledge(like humble bundle). It would be more fair than ridiculous $165 and would cover (only) about 11k ppl, instead of 1600 chosen ones...and that would make others to pledge more (imho). You're suggesting that Obsidian put an add-on feature with Kickstarter for the expansion at some price like an additional $20.00. In a sense, make it a pre-order for the expansion? Some people might see this as simply a pre-order and funds being diverted away from the base game to the expansion. introducing the expansion at this stage was silly anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 introducing the expansion at this stage was silly anyway... The people at those high tiers don't get the expansion when the game is released. There's no expansion in the box or at the digitial tier when you receive the main game. The expansion may never happen. The people at those high tiers are putting their money into the main game for a better main game. If an expansion happens, then great. But there's no guarantees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boger Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 All of the money they take in from Kickstarter will go towards the main game. It will not go towards the expansion. You have not paid one red cent towards the expansion no matter what you pledge or what tier you choose. You have only paid towards the main game. If you pledge high enough, then they will include a free copy of the xpac, for which the people have not paid to make, only to purchase. in other words, let's say you pay $10 for two popcorns and you get a free soda. If popcorn is priced at $5 and you pay $10 for two and get an extra soda, you haven't paid a damned thing for the soda. Someone might have gone in with a friend and bought two popcorns and still gotten a free soda. They're just lucky. You go in and only buy one popcorn, you're out of luck but you're sure as hell not paying for something you don't get. If I were going to go cowboy on an issue, I swear to God it would be this one. I don't think its like that. Let's say they use your money to make plastic cups and put popcorn in it and then try to sell you soda in the plastic cup you already paid for. Wouldn't you think, hold on I've already paid for the plastic cup, shouldn't I get the discount? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Obsidian should just put up the expansion pack on their website and people can buy the main game via Kickstarter and the Expansion pack separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogrezilla Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) All of the money they take in from Kickstarter will go towards the main game. It will not go towards the expansion. You have not paid one red cent towards the expansion no matter what you pledge or what tier you choose. You have only paid towards the main game. If you pledge high enough, then they will include a free copy of the xpac, for which the people have not paid to make, only to purchase. in other words, let's say you pay $10 for two popcorns and you get a free soda. If popcorn is priced at $5 and you pay $10 for two and get an extra soda, you haven't paid a damned thing for the soda. Someone might have gone in with a friend and bought two popcorns and still gotten a free soda. They're just lucky. You go in and only buy one popcorn, you're out of luck but you're sure as hell not paying for something you don't get. If I were going to go cowboy on an issue, I swear to God it would be this one. I don't think its like that. Let's say they use your money to make plastic cups and put popcorn in it and then try to sell you soda in the plastic cup you already paid for. Wouldn't you think, hold on I've already paid for the plastic cup, shouldn't I get the discount? that analogy is not good. do you have a problem that the higher tiers getting things like t-shirts and stuff? because they aren't paying to develop those either. I don't think you're game experience is complete if you aren't using a PE mousepad and wearing a PE hat while looking at your cloth PE world map hanging on the wall. You haven't bought anything from anyone on kickstarter. You donated money. They are nice enough to give you free things based on how much you donated. At best, you bought a cup. They gave you free popcorn. now you want free soda too. Edited October 10, 2012 by ogrezilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantousent Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 All of the money they take in from Kickstarter will go towards the main game. It will not go towards the expansion. You have not paid one red cent towards the expansion no matter what you pledge or what tier you choose. You have only paid towards the main game. If you pledge high enough, then they will include a free copy of the xpac, for which the people have not paid to make, only to purchase. in other words, let's say you pay $10 for two popcorns and you get a free soda. If popcorn is priced at $5 and you pay $10 for two and get an extra soda, you haven't paid a damned thing for the soda. Someone might have gone in with a friend and bought two popcorns and still gotten a free soda. They're just lucky. You go in and only buy one popcorn, you're out of luck but you're sure as hell not paying for something you don't get. If I were going to go cowboy on an issue, I swear to God it would be this one. I don't think its like that. Let's say they use your money to make plastic cups and put popcorn in it and then try to sell you soda in the plastic cup you already paid for. Wouldn't you think, hold on I've already paid for the plastic cup, shouldn't I get the discount? No. Not at all. I disagree with your assessment entirely. Obsidian should not feel compelled to give away the store because people like you are informed entirely by your own greed. 2 Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boger Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) All of the money they take in from Kickstarter will go towards the main game. It will not go towards the expansion. You have not paid one red cent towards the expansion no matter what you pledge or what tier you choose. You have only paid towards the main game. If you pledge high enough, then they will include a free copy of the xpac, for which the people have not paid to make, only to purchase. in other words, let's say you pay $10 for two popcorns and you get a free soda. If popcorn is priced at $5 and you pay $10 for two and get an extra soda, you haven't paid a damned thing for the soda. Someone might have gone in with a friend and bought two popcorns and still gotten a free soda. They're just lucky. You go in and only buy one popcorn, you're out of luck but you're sure as hell not paying for something you don't get. If I were going to go cowboy on an issue, I swear to God it would be this one. I don't think its like that. Let's say they use your money to make plastic cups and put popcorn in it and then try to sell you soda in the plastic cup you already paid for. Wouldn't you think, hold on I've already paid for the plastic cup, shouldn't I get the discount? that analogy is not good. do you have a problem that the higher tiers getting things like t-shirts and stuff? because they aren't paying to develop those either. I don't think you're game experience is complete if you aren't using a PE mousepad and wearing a PE hat while looking at your cloth PE world map hanging on the wall. You haven't bought anything from anyone on kickstarter. You donated money. They are nice enough to give you free things based on how much you donated. At best, you bought a cup. They gave you free popcorn. now you want free soda too. first of all, they don't give me(us) anything for free (plastic cup=game engine, popcorn=gameplay/story etc) I(we) have given them the money based on a promise to make "isometric, party-based computer RPG set in a new fantasy world". Now they are planing to use plastic cup(game engine) to put soda(new gameplay/story) in it. Supporting the project is one thing and I don't have a problem with it, but by "giving" the expansion to the $165 and above, it looks to me like: all below $165 are not worthy enough to get it(please remember that even $20 might be a lot for some people and there's 25000 ppl there). So they should either give the expansion to all backers (not only to $156+), don't give it to anyone at all or at least make it cheaper for backers, because they spend their money to get this project running. They are nice enough to give you free things based on how much you donated. they will use kickstarter money, money you donated to give you "free" things All of the money they take in from Kickstarter will go towards the main game. It will not go towards the expansion. You have not paid one red cent towards the expansion no matter what you pledge or what tier you choose. You have only paid towards the main game. If you pledge high enough, then they will include a free copy of the xpac, for which the people have not paid to make, only to purchase. in other words, let's say you pay $10 for two popcorns and you get a free soda. If popcorn is priced at $5 and you pay $10 for two and get an extra soda, you haven't paid a damned thing for the soda. Someone might have gone in with a friend and bought two popcorns and still gotten a free soda. They're just lucky. You go in and only buy one popcorn, you're out of luck but you're sure as hell not paying for something you don't get. If I were going to go cowboy on an issue, I swear to God it would be this one. I don't think its like that. Let's say they use your money to make plastic cups and put popcorn in it and then try to sell you soda in the plastic cup you already paid for. Wouldn't you think, hold on I've already paid for the plastic cup, shouldn't I get the discount? No. Not at all. I disagree with your assessment entirely. Obsidian should not feel compelled to give away the store because people like you are informed entirely by your own greed. Actually they should, because store doesn't add anything to the project funding, example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEaY4JYooJk Edited October 10, 2012 by boger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantousent Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Nope, no alcohol induced angry posts. I disagree with you boger, but I don't have personal animosity for you. No need to argue my point further than that. Edited October 10, 2012 by Cantousent Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist II Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I see a lot of problems trying to add the expansion as an add-on. Say for instance you give the expansion a $40.00 figure. Then the $165.00 tier pretty much becomes redundant and all those backers will go down to the $110.00 tier and add the $40.00 making it $150.00. So you would have to make it at least $70.00 for the expansion plus any extras (eg. Wasteland 2), otherwise pretty much everyone on the $165.00 tier will be leaving in droves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curryinahurry Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 All of the money they take in from Kickstarter will go towards the main game. It will not go towards the expansion. You have not paid one red cent towards the expansion no matter what you pledge or what tier you choose. You have only paid towards the main game. If you pledge high enough, then they will include a free copy of the xpac, for which the people have not paid to make, only to purchase. in other words, let's say you pay $10 for two popcorns and you get a free soda. If popcorn is priced at $5 and you pay $10 for two and get an extra soda, you haven't paid a damned thing for the soda. Someone might have gone in with a friend and bought two popcorns and still gotten a free soda. They're just lucky. You go in and only buy one popcorn, you're out of luck but you're sure as hell not paying for something you don't get. If I were going to go cowboy on an issue, I swear to God it would be this one. I don't think its like that. Let's say they use your money to make plastic cups and put popcorn in it and then try to sell you soda in the plastic cup you already paid for. Wouldn't you think, hold on I've already paid for the plastic cup, shouldn't I get the discount? that analogy is not good. do you have a problem that the higher tiers getting things like t-shirts and stuff? because they aren't paying to develop those either. I don't think you're game experience is complete if you aren't using a PE mousepad and wearing a PE hat while looking at your cloth PE world map hanging on the wall. You haven't bought anything from anyone on kickstarter. You donated money. They are nice enough to give you free things based on how much you donated. At best, you bought a cup. They gave you free popcorn. now you want free soda too. first of all, they don't give me(us) anything for free (plastic cup=game engine, popcorn=gameplay/story etc) I(we) have given them the money based on a promise to make "isometric, party-based computer RPG set in a new fantasy world". Now they are planing to use plastic cup(game engine) to put soda(new gameplay/story) in it. Supporting the project is one thing and I don't have a problem with it, but by "giving" the expansion to the $165 and above, it looks to me like: all below $165 are not worthy enough to get it(please remember that even $20 might be a lot for some people and there's 25000 ppl there). So they should either give the expansion to all backers (not only to $156+), don't give it to anyone at all or at least make it cheaper for backers, because they spend their money to get this project running. They are nice enough to give you free things based on how much you donated. they will use kickstarter money, money you donated to give you "free" things All of the money they take in from Kickstarter will go towards the main game. It will not go towards the expansion. You have not paid one red cent towards the expansion no matter what you pledge or what tier you choose. You have only paid towards the main game. If you pledge high enough, then they will include a free copy of the xpac, for which the people have not paid to make, only to purchase. in other words, let's say you pay $10 for two popcorns and you get a free soda. If popcorn is priced at $5 and you pay $10 for two and get an extra soda, you haven't paid a damned thing for the soda. Someone might have gone in with a friend and bought two popcorns and still gotten a free soda. They're just lucky. You go in and only buy one popcorn, you're out of luck but you're sure as hell not paying for something you don't get. If I were going to go cowboy on an issue, I swear to God it would be this one. I don't think its like that. Let's say they use your money to make plastic cups and put popcorn in it and then try to sell you soda in the plastic cup you already paid for. Wouldn't you think, hold on I've already paid for the plastic cup, shouldn't I get the discount? No. Not at all. I disagree with your assessment entirely. Obsidian should not feel compelled to give away the store because people like you are informed entirely by your own greed. Actually they should, because store doesn't add anything to the project funding, example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEaY4JYooJk Your example doesn't really apply to the game. You're paying for the product, not the engine or the story. If Obsidian created a KS to fund a game engine, then your point would still not be valid, because then all you paid for is the engine, not the product. The only time your analogy would work is if you had commissioned Obsidian under a contract to make x game and to hand over all tools developed in the creation of x game upon completion. That is not the case here, where we are crowd funding a game and giving Obsidian wide latitude to develop the game. Obsidian is then going to develop a second game, it will be smaller in scope and be sold 6 months or so after the first game is released. As a thank you to certain backers who paid larger amounts of money, they are giving the second game to them for free. The tools and assets they use will be partially paid for by the first game, but not exclusively, and regardless, they belong to Obsidian for them to do with as they please. Please refer to the modding issue as it has bearing on your complaint. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosveen Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) first of all, they don't give me(us) anything for free (plastic cup=game engine, popcorn=gameplay/story etc) I(we) have given them the money based on a promise to make "isometric, party-based computer RPG set in a new fantasy world". Now they are planing to use plastic cup(game engine) to put soda(new gameplay/story) in it. Supporting the project is one thing and I don't have a problem with it, but by "giving" the expansion to the $165 and above, it looks to me like: all below $165 are not worthy enough to get it(please remember that even $20 might be a lot for some people and there's 25000 ppl there). So they should either give the expansion to all backers (not only to $156+), don't give it to anyone at all or at least make it cheaper for backers, because they spend their money to get this project running. I'm really not in the mood to take part in a serious discussion, so this is the only part I'll adress. I'm a $50 backer. I don't feel bad that I'm not getting the expansion, I understand its inclusion is a way to encourage higher pledges (whether it's the best way or not is up to debate) and giving it to everyone is not economical. All money from Kickstarter goes into the main game, so they'll have to make the expansion with their own funds. Mind you, they need a profit, otherwise there'll be no expansion, no sequel and no franchise. So if they give the expansion to everybody, they lose 50k people who'd otherwise pay for it. Not a smart move. Yes, it can be argued that $165 tier is unnecessarily favouring some backers, but... Does it really harm us in any way? I joined this Kickstarter with the intention of helping them make Project Eternity and that's exactly what I did. I signed up for a copy of the game and additional digital goodies - and I'll get them. I'm satisfied. That there will be an expansion and that some backers will get it for free doesn't change my attitude. Let's face it: every backer getting the expansion is not feasible. So to appease you, they'd have to strip the DLC from all tiers. Would we be better for it? Would the Kickstarter be better? To me it looks like "I can't have it, so nobody else will" attitude, not a sign of real concern for the project. As it's been said countless times, Kickstarter is not a store. I helped fund the main game, when it's released I'll happily play it and, if I like it, buy the expansion. I don't want it cheaper. The more money goes to Obsidian, the better. Edited October 10, 2012 by Rosveen 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheXGuy Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I would like to see Wasteland 2 in some of the physical tiers. More specifically in the $140 that I have pledged. I missed the chance to back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanoid Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I would like to see Wasteland 2 in some of the physical tiers. More specifically in the $140 that I have pledged. I missed the chance to back it up. You still can back it: http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/store L I E S T R O N GL I V E W R O N G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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