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Please include women with shirts on.

women requests representation

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#1
Belias

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Hi Obsidian people who might be reading this,

I like to play the games you make! And I am really excited for this kickstarter because you're answering to the fans! But can you make sure we get a good proportion (half would be ideal!) of well-written female companions? More Fall-From-Graces, Kreias, and so forth? And could they have clothes that they wear all the time please? Unless it makes sense that the character would wear less, of course, but it shouldn't be like that for most of them. I'd also really like it if a few of them could be something other than white (and some of the guys, too). Maybe a couple could even be queer!

I have a lot of faith in you, and I'm sure lots of your other fans do, too! You write wonderful characters, female or otherwise, and I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. I'm sure I'd like them either way, but some representation would be fantastic now that you don't have any publisher telling you that T&A is how to sell your game.

Thanks for reading!

Edited by Belias, 14 September 2012 - 10:57 AM.

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#2
Tychoxi

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yes please! this shatters immersion and suspension of disbelief! why would battle women go around in metal underwear?? The harlots in FO and PS:T had less flesh exposed than your average fantasy RPG chick does nowadays. You can do it! Kickstarter means you don't have to cater to the ****&ASPLOSIONS&GRAPHX crowd (not that you particularily catered to those in your previous games).

This is probably intersting and related: http://www.kickstart...-in-video-games
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#3
Syraxis

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Chainmail bikinis are ridiculous.
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#4
DAWUSS

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It's fine for ceremonial armor, but you generally wear ceremonial armor into battle (AFAIK).

#5
J.E. Sawyer

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This is something that's very important to me and I fight for it (practical but good-looking armor on female characters) whenever it comes up. For me, the goal isn't to be prudish, but to be practical and egalitarian about it.

BTW, this is a very good site: http://womenfighters.tumblr.com/
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#6
HoonDing

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yes please! this shatters immersion and suspension of disbelief! why would battle women go around in metal underwear?? The harlots in FO and PS:T had less flesh exposed than your average fantasy RPG chick does nowadays. You can do it! Kickstarter means you don't have to cater to the ****&ASPLOSIONS&GRAPHX crowd (not that you particularily catered to those in your previous games).

This is probably intersting and related: http://www.kickstart...-in-video-games

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA4zgytCnOk

#7
Belias

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This is something that's very important to me and I fight for it (practical but good-looking armor on female characters) whenever it comes up. For me, the goal isn't to be prudish, but to be practical and egalitarian about it.

BTW, this is a very good site: http://womenfighters.tumblr.com/


Thank you, this is very heartening to hear!

#8
Wombat

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Wonder if this was the reason why he left Midway...

A twist to typical male fantasy like Fall-from-Grace is O.K. by me, though.

#9
Nefastus

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I'm glad to read that J.E. I was a lot less worried given Obsidian's generally solid track record, but so often when I hear about a "mature" game, that's code for developers wanting to shove as much gratuitous sex, drugs and violence into a game (or other media) as they can, which, while it may earn them an "MA" rating, often comes off as a pubescent dream rather than something actually mature in a literal sense. Heavy themes and the darker side of humanity are important avenues to explore in making a mature game. Stilleto greaves and chainmail thongs? Not so much.
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#10
Emitan

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Yup yup! Realistic armor is important! I hate it when I defeat some ancient eldritch horror and pick the lock on a magical treausre chest find some new amazing armor that it makes me look like a Soul Calibur character :p

And on the subject of variety I agree that we need a wider variety of characters. As a transgender lesbian it's a bit frustrating to see almost every female character be a white, straight, accesory for the main character or something like that. Where's the dark skin, the lesbians, the asexuals, the gender queer? Not trying to push an agenda here but Obsidian is one of the only developers I trust that can handle these sorts of characters with the respect and realism the deserve.
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#11
Humanoid

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Tangential, and going back a ways, but I liked UO's aesthetic option of a cloak/robe not being an alternative or form of armour, but just an option to have draped over your actual armor. Sure, I like "cool" looking gear, but in terms of gameworld design I'd prefer the heroes to be a bit more subtle outside of combat - a group of vagabonds and not some paladin in armour so shiny you could use it as a mirror.

I'm not so 'hardcore' as to ask for armour to be gender/race specific, made to size, have varying levels of durability/quality and so forth, but I think it does add to immersion if a particular piece of gear looks more or less identical besides those scaling factors - after all, real world clothing, size issues aside, is functionally unisex. :p (The opposite would be the ridiculous shapeshifting sleepwear in New Vegas - not sure if it was in FO3 - which morphed into either pyjamas or a nightie depending on who equipped it)

#12
Belias

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Yup yup! Realistic armor is important! I hate it when I defeat some ancient eldritch horror and pick the lock on a magical treausre chest find some new amazing armor that it makes me look like a Soul Calibur character :p

And on the subject of variety I agree that we need a wider variety of characters. As a transgender lesbian it's a bit frustrating to see almost every female character be a white, straight, accesory for the main character or something like that. Where's the dark skin, the lesbians, the asexuals, the gender queer? Not trying to push an agenda here but Obsidian is one of the only developers I trust that can handle these sorts of characters with the respect and realism the deserve.


I don't think it's pushing an agenda to ask to be represented! Being queer or asexual or brown can be things characters just are without the game having to talk about them at all. New Vegas did a great job with its queer cast, so it would be good to see that kind of representation continued and extended to other stuff, too!
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#13
LadyCrimson

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How about some female characters that don't have wasp waists/hour-glass hips etc, that is not a female dwarf? Not that I personally care toooo much, but it would be nice sometimes if there was more than just a token town NPC or two who was less idealized in that regard.
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#14
Ieo

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A twist to typical male fantasy like Fall-from-Grace is O.K. by me, though.


Hear, hear. I really liked Grace and the Brothel for Slaking Intellectual Lusts--intriguing stuff. And in another thread, someone posted that chainmail bikinis were fine if they were forced on male characters too; that reminds me that The Nameless One had only a loincloth. :p But I digress.
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#15
The Sharmat

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All's fine and good as long as it's internally consistent and well written. If it's a gritty, low fantasy world don't expect me to buy giant pauldrons or bikini armor. But don't go too far the other way and hesitate to have any female characters that are feminine or care about being perceived as attractive. Obviously, many women don't care about those things. But portraying all women as traditionally "masculine" isn't escaping sexism. And don't let it make you afraid to portray sexism in setting for fear that portrayal will be conflated with endorsement.

EDIT: Oh, and if you're going for realism: even if the armor covers everything, breast bulges have no place outside of ceremonial armor. They're utterly unnecessary for comfort (the plate is going to be quite far from the character's torso inevitably due to necessary padding) and actually would tend to guide blows to potentially lethal areas rather than deflect them.

Edited by The Sharmat, 14 September 2012 - 06:03 PM.

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#16
Nefastus

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Yup yup! Realistic armor is important! I hate it when I defeat some ancient eldritch horror and pick the lock on a magical treausre chest find some new amazing armor that it makes me look like a Soul Calibur character :p

And on the subject of variety I agree that we need a wider variety of characters. As a transgender lesbian it's a bit frustrating to see almost every female character be a white, straight, accesory for the main character or something like that. Where's the dark skin, the lesbians, the asexuals, the gender queer? Not trying to push an agenda here but Obsidian is one of the only developers I trust that can handle these sorts of characters with the respect and realism the deserve.


As long as it's done tastefully and realistically. Far too often in recent games those types of characters seem thrown in there for the sake of satisfying a political correctness quota rather than to organically flesh out the world and story line and as such they often stick out like a sore thumb and ruin the immersiveness of the game in my opinion.

Edited by Nefastus, 14 September 2012 - 06:04 PM.


#17
Belias

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Yup yup! Realistic armor is important! I hate it when I defeat some ancient eldritch horror and pick the lock on a magical treausre chest find some new amazing armor that it makes me look like a Soul Calibur character :p

And on the subject of variety I agree that we need a wider variety of characters. As a transgender lesbian it's a bit frustrating to see almost every female character be a white, straight, accesory for the main character or something like that. Where's the dark skin, the lesbians, the asexuals, the gender queer? Not trying to push an agenda here but Obsidian is one of the only developers I trust that can handle these sorts of characters with the respect and realism the deserve.


As long as it's done tastefully and realistically. Far too often in recent games those types of characters seem thrown in there for the sake of satisfying a political correctness quota rather than to organically flesh out the world and story line and as such they often stick out like a sore thumb and ruin the immersion of the game in my opinion.


Do you have any examples...?

#18
WDeranged

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I don't have many worries in this area, Obsidian are a pretty classy crew...it's not that I don't want any titillation but I agree with LadyCrimson, give us some normalos mixed in with the fantastical.

#19
Nefastus

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Yup yup! Realistic armor is important! I hate it when I defeat some ancient eldritch horror and pick the lock on a magical treausre chest find some new amazing armor that it makes me look like a Soul Calibur character :p

And on the subject of variety I agree that we need a wider variety of characters. As a transgender lesbian it's a bit frustrating to see almost every female character be a white, straight, accesory for the main character or something like that. Where's the dark skin, the lesbians, the asexuals, the gender queer? Not trying to push an agenda here but Obsidian is one of the only developers I trust that can handle these sorts of characters with the respect and realism the deserve.


As long as it's done tastefully and realistically. Far too often in recent games those types of characters seem thrown in there for the sake of satisfying a political correctness quota rather than to organically flesh out the world and story line and as such they often stick out like a sore thumb and ruin the immersion of the game in my opinion.


Do you have any examples...?


Recent Bioware games come to mind. I seem to recall FO:NV doing a much better job of it, but my memory is a bit more hazy on that one.

#20
Emitan

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Yup yup! Realistic armor is important! I hate it when I defeat some ancient eldritch horror and pick the lock on a magical treausre chest find some new amazing armor that it makes me look like a Soul Calibur character :p

And on the subject of variety I agree that we need a wider variety of characters. As a transgender lesbian it's a bit frustrating to see almost every female character be a white, straight, accesory for the main character or something like that. Where's the dark skin, the lesbians, the asexuals, the gender queer? Not trying to push an agenda here but Obsidian is one of the only developers I trust that can handle these sorts of characters with the respect and realism the deserve.


As long as it's done tastefully and realistically. Far too often in recent games those types of characters seem thrown in there for the sake of satisfying a political correctness quota rather than to organically flesh out the world and story line and as such they often stick out like a sore thumb and ruin the immersiveness of the game in my opinion.

Of course. If a character isn't a good character they shouldn't be in the game. Characters shouldn't be designed to check a box on the list of political correctness.
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