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Ouch, Bioware... Dragon Age 2, and now this?


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#21
Volourn

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Meh. The ME3 beginning is probably one of the top 5 worst things BIo has ever done.

#22
Giantevilhead

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Forced romances as "You can't avoid the awkwardness and have to go through a romance to unlock some pieces of the scenario". Or as "we consider you as the worst nerds ever and will shove them down your threat until you take it willingfully" but that would be too radical. I have friends who think that way though. They think those romances went down a creepy way.
Concerning ME3, I must admit I never played more than the demo but as far as I know, it's the same than in ME2, meaning conversations are suddenly stopped with several characters unless you decide to get it on with one of them.
Damn was that bad in ME2. I just wanted to talk to people, not getting insulted because I couldn't choose or because I chose someone else when I thought I had to do that if I wanted to progress. It's like those characters were defined by their genitals, with nothing beyond that.
Besides, I tend to think like Chris. Romances in video games are only interesting if they are a way to convey something else. In KOTOR2 for example, it was a result of the Exile's Force Brainwashing and it was genuinely creepy to Visas pledge her life for him.
These romances were handled were better in ME1, when it wasn't a full feature nor marketed to death. Alas...


Jack's romance was the worst since it was necessary to get her to open up emotionally and face her pain. So playing as HaleShep will miss some pretty important character development for the character. There's also the fact that in order for a rape victim to open up, you have to have sex with her.

#23
Volourn

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God forbid there's actual C&C. How horrible! You have to do/be x to get y! In a RPG! Perish the thought!


"There's also the fact that in order for a rape victim to open up, you have to have sex with her. "

Actually, that cna logically make sense since a one would think that a prior victim of rape would old wounds open up if they feel ready to have sex with someone after such a horrible thing happen leading to them talking aboutt hings they';ve enver talked about. if they are intimate enough to have have sex/make love with someone preusmably youa re intimiate/open enough with them to talk about serious issues (casual sex aside thoguh most rape victims doubtfully are into casual sex.. most anyways).

I never had a relationship with Jack (I don't care much about the character) and I certainly didn't feel like I missed out or 'got cheated'. C&C is a GOOD thing; NOT a bad thing.

Edited by Volourn, 16 March 2012 - 11:42 PM.


#24
Humanoid

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Being able to accomplish everything there is to do in a game - no collisions, no conflicts - isn't the hallmark of roleplaying no matter what Bethesda sandboxes try to drill into their playerbase. I would have no problem with Shep for example not being able to do certain quests if he or she didn't have any biotic ability for example. Or in other games, say for instance that Ulfric would never fully trust you if you weren't a Nord. I liked very much how in The Witcher 2, if you went with Vernon you'd miss a big character reveal and any chance of "saving" them.

In that sense I think it may have been interesting in ME2 if there actually wasn't enough time to do all the loyalty missions (or perhaps not even enough time to do all the recruitment missions) - you'd end up having to choose the members for which doing their content made the most sense, and suffer the consequences in the suicide mission. Doing so would require more development on the main plot in all likelihood but still.

#25
Orogun01

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There's also the fact that in order for a rape victim to open up, you have to have sex with her.

Of course that's how it works, haven't you played one of them..whatchamacallit...visual novels? Bioware certainly has.

#26
greylord

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God forbid there's actual C&C. How horrible! You have to do/be x to get y! In a RPG! Perish the thought!


"There's also the fact that in order for a rape victim to open up, you have to have sex with her. "

Actually, that cna logically make sense since a one would think that a prior victim of rape would old wounds open up if they feel ready to have sex with someone after such a horrible thing happen leading to them talking aboutt hings they';ve enver talked about. if they are intimate enough to have have sex/make love with someone preusmably youa re intimiate/open enough with them to talk about serious issues (casual sex aside thoguh most rape victims doubtfully are into casual sex.. most anyways).

I never had a relationship with Jack (I don't care much about the character) and I certainly didn't feel like I missed out or 'got cheated'. C&C is a GOOD thing; NOT a bad thing.


And yet you claim to like the ending of ME3. C&C must not mean THAT much to you. In fact from your approach you basically seem to imply the exact opposite of what you just said above.

#27
Volourn

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ME3 ending has C&C. More C&C than say BG1's ending. LMAO Yet, I don't see anyone ragging on BIO for it?

ME3 has tons of C&C. Tons of C&C.

#28
greylord

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ME3 ending has C&C. More C&C than say BG1's ending. LMAO Yet, I don't see anyone ragging on BIO for it?

ME3 has tons of C&C. Tons of C&C.


Yep, Red light, Green Light...oh and blue light.

and everyone dies unless they have space magic.

You're full of it in regards to C&C in that ending.

So...tell me...how did you end up saving the Turian fleet from starving to death...and keeping the relays going...and how did your choices to help the Krogan or salarians preserve anything....

Oh wait...that's right...you could somehow choose to have the green or blue light instead of the red light.

There's more C&C in BG2:ToB's ending then ME3's.

Edited by greylord, 17 March 2012 - 01:01 PM.


#29
Drowsy Emperor

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From what I understand ME3 has tons of choices and one consequence.

#30
greylord

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Not really. Once you get into the last 30 minutes...there aren't any choices at all except MAYBE to talk one main enemy to death. The only real choice you get is to choose red, green, or blue.

I actually prefer they keep the endings then to scratch it all and say it was Indoc. To say they gave us an incomplete game would upset me FAR more than simply giving us a bad ending like they did.

However, you're actions through the game really only do one thing...enable you to chooose green instead of blue or blue instead of red. Other than that..they do absolutely NOTHING really.

So you saved the Geth and Quarians...that really has no result on the ending. You don't see them on the ground with you, they don't save Tali, or anything.

So you got the Krogan to help you...you get to see them blown up in one cut scene BEFORE the ending portions, and nowhere really in the end.

Really, C&C is basically tossed completely out the window in favor of Deus Ex Machina

Otherwise there aren't really that many choices.

But yes, you're right, regardless of whether you choose the red, blue, or green, the choices basically have the same ending except for about 5 seconds in them depending on whether you chose control...or whether you played MP long enough to maximize some war assets you have and have enough of those to see the 5 second clip when you choose destroy.

Edited by greylord, 17 March 2012 - 01:29 PM.


#31
Nepenthe

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From what I understand ME3 has tons of choices and one consequence.

That's so unfair and so right at the same time. :p

#32
Pop

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It's p. interesting to me that all the people on other forums who I used to argue with over Bioware's inherently rigid design philosophy post-KOTOR and the winnowing of C&C in their games have now openly expressed that they're done with the company. They're pretty level-headed folks, too, not BSN types.

To be fair, for most of them the frustration has to do with the second blatant instance in as many consecutive games of major day-one DLC and the squandering of the Dragon Age franchise. With Mass Effect now definitely finished in its current form, there's just nothing to look forward to. That will probably change when / if they announce whatever IP they're working on next.

Edited by Pop, 17 March 2012 - 02:52 PM.


#33
Volourn

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"There's more C&C in BG2:ToB's ending then ME3's. "

That's hilarious!


"the winnowing of C&C in their games "

Except BIO's newer games have way more C&C than their older games. L0L


Just cool to hate on BIO because they are a Big Boy On Block tm and not some silly indy devy. I hope you all enjoy lapping up KOTOR OL while I laugh at you. HA!

#34
Auxilius

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Dude, chill.

#35
Volourn

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Any chiller be I, a popsicle I am.

#36
mkreku

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So.. someone explain this furore to me? It's spreading to every forum I frequent. Why are you all so upset about the ending of a game?

Can someone sum it up for me? And can it really be any worse than time-travelling lizards from ancient times? :p

#37
Gorgon

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The ending is kinda lame, well all of them are. I would not have preditcted these levels of hissy fit though.

#38
Lexx

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I am just annoyed that the fuzz is mostly about the ending being dark and not that the players choices don't have any influence. :/

#39
Gfted1

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Any chiller be I, a popsicle I am.


:lol:

#40
Slinky

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So.. someone explain this furore to me? It's spreading to every forum I frequent. Why are you all so upset about the ending of a game?

Can someone sum it up for me? And can it really be any worse than time-travelling lizards from ancient times? :p


1. The choices you make playing the trilogy matters about zip in the end.
2. Doesn't really answer any questions about reapers, nor tells anything what happens after the ending. Doesn't give any closure for the story and characters.

All in all, very underwhelming end for a story that tries so hard to be epic.




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