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Ouch, Bioware... Dragon Age 2, and now this?


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#1
Humodour

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Mass Effect 3's user rating relative to reviewer rating on Metacritic is hilarious:

http://www.zonared.c...-mass-effect-3/

I'll admit I gave up on Bioware a while ago, but it still hurts a bit to see the company that came up with Baldur's Gate 1 fall so far.

#2
Lorfean

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Metacritic is a joke though. First of all, its User Score is much too vulnerable to trolling haters spamming 0/100 ratings -- and with all the controversy around ME3 before and after its release you can bet there were a LOT of those. Second, its Metascore is equally unreliable because the site does things like interpreting 5/5 stars review scores as a 100/100 rating, which is completely ridiculous... The way it works today, Metacritic should not be taken seriously in any capacity. It is NOT a valid representation of anything.

As for BioWare -- I've realized that the BG series are really the only games they've made that have any lasting value for me. NWN and KotOR were just never that great for me, with the possible exception of Hordes of the Underdark, but the entire NWN SP package has aged horribly and, as a result, is very difficult to get back into. I never bothered with JE and although DA was good, it was also very generic and took itself waaay too seriously... and then they ruined the franchise with the sequel. I enjoyed ME and ME2 but completely lost interest in the series after the whole ME3 marketing/multiplayer/DLC debacle and feel like it would be a waste of time to try getting back into it again. So yes, it's a shame they chose the direction they did, but there's enough other games out there and now that we're getting Enhanced Edtions of the BG games, that will only extend their lifetime even further :)
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#3
Drowsy Emperor

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As for BioWare -- I've realized that the BG series are really the only games they've made that have any lasting value for me. NWN and KotOR were just never that great for me, with the possible exception of Hordes of the Underdark, but the entire NWN SP package has aged horribly and, as a result, is very difficult to get back into. I never bothered with JE and although DA was good, it was also very generic and took itself waaay too seriously... and then they ruined the franchise with the sequel. I enjoyed ME and ME2 but completely lost interest in the series after the whole ME3 marketing/multiplayer/DLC debacle and feel like it would be a waste of time to try getting back into it again.


Exactly how I feel. Its not that I didn't enjoy playing the rest of their games, its just that they were like most other games - play, uninstall, forget.
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#4
Nepenthe

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As for BioWare -- I've realized that the BG series are really the only games they've made that have any lasting value for me. NWN and KotOR were just never that great for me, with the possible exception of Hordes of the Underdark, but the entire NWN SP package has aged horribly and, as a result, is very difficult to get back into. I never bothered with JE and although DA was good, it was also very generic and took itself waaay too seriously... and then they ruined the franchise with the sequel. I enjoyed ME and ME2 but completely lost interest in the series after the whole ME3 marketing/multiplayer/DLC debacle and feel like it would be a waste of time to try getting back into it again.


Exactly how I feel. Its not that I didn't enjoy playing the rest of their games, its just that they were like most other games - play, uninstall, forget.

Not their fault you have unrealistic expectations.

#5
Gorgon

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It's not a 3,5 of 10 game though. Not even close, so I tend not to believe that score.

#6
Malcador

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Metacritic ? Feh, useless.

#7
Humanoid

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Averages out to 64.5 between user and professional scores though - which if game ratings were sensible (i.e. rated on a distribution of 0-10 instead of about 7-10), would mean above average - which isabout where it is based on textual feedback. Round up and you have a 3.5 star game, eminently playable.

#8
Drowsy Emperor

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As for BioWare -- I've realized that the BG series are really the only games they've made that have any lasting value for me. NWN and KotOR were just never that great for me, with the possible exception of Hordes of the Underdark, but the entire NWN SP package has aged horribly and, as a result, is very difficult to get back into. I never bothered with JE and although DA was good, it was also very generic and took itself waaay too seriously... and then they ruined the franchise with the sequel. I enjoyed ME and ME2 but completely lost interest in the series after the whole ME3 marketing/multiplayer/DLC debacle and feel like it would be a waste of time to try getting back into it again.


Exactly how I feel. Its not that I didn't enjoy playing the rest of their games, its just that they were like most other games - play, uninstall, forget.

Not their fault you have unrealistic expectations.


It is and it isn't and that's the most diplomatic reply you're going to get.

Some other developers did manage to meet them (my expectations) later, so its not all about my "impossibly" high standards.

Edited by Drowsy Emperor, 16 March 2012 - 07:51 AM.


#9
Nepenthe

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As for BioWare -- I've realized that the BG series are really the only games they've made that have any lasting value for me. NWN and KotOR were just never that great for me, with the possible exception of Hordes of the Underdark, but the entire NWN SP package has aged horribly and, as a result, is very difficult to get back into. I never bothered with JE and although DA was good, it was also very generic and took itself waaay too seriously... and then they ruined the franchise with the sequel. I enjoyed ME and ME2 but completely lost interest in the series after the whole ME3 marketing/multiplayer/DLC debacle and feel like it would be a waste of time to try getting back into it again.


Exactly how I feel. Its not that I didn't enjoy playing the rest of their games, its just that they were like most other games - play, uninstall, forget.

Not their fault you have unrealistic expectations.


It is and it isn't and that's the most diplomatic reply you're going to get.

Some other developers did manage to meet them (my expectations) later, so its not all about my "impossibly" high standards.

The same developer creating classics for the ages more than once is already highly improbable. In Bioware's case, they did it twice. It's just how creative work happens, never heard of a band than managed to keep making awesome for more than an album or two, either. :p
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#10
greylord

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I have to admit, I don't go to metacritic for scores or reviews. That said, if you have user reviews, I'd trust user reviews 1000x MORE than ANY "professional" review. To me, professional reviews are basically people bought off by the game companies. They have NO integrity, and NO honesty about them overall. The closest they will ever get to actual honest reviews are when the game companies don't pay them any heed, don't give them advanced copies, or anything else. THEN and ONLY then is when you may get an honest review from these "pro" reviewers. That's why their scores vary so much from game to game, and why half the time they'll say something I love is only average (which if they are being honest, it probably IS average, just like another game they may have rated a 95+ was average...they just are being honest rather than their usual bought off selves).

I DO see Gamespots/gamefaqs user reviews typically and USE THAT as what I balance my buying off of. User reviews are FAR more dependable overall, and typically if you ignore the number score you can also see what their gripes are about. I tend to go see what the lowest rated ones are, and see what the middle of the line and the highest rated ones say. Together they typically paint a pretty good picture of what to expect of the game.

#11
Gorth

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As for BioWare -- I've realized that the BG series are really the only games they've made that have any lasting value for me. NWN and KotOR were just never that great for me, with the possible exception of Hordes of the Underdark, but the entire NWN SP package has aged horribly and, as a result, is very difficult to get back into. I never bothered with JE and although DA was good, it was also very generic and took itself waaay too seriously... and then they ruined the franchise with the sequel. I enjoyed ME and ME2 but completely lost interest in the series after the whole ME3 marketing/multiplayer/DLC debacle and feel like it would be a waste of time to try getting back into it again.


Exactly how I feel. Its not that I didn't enjoy playing the rest of their games, its just that they were like most other games - play, uninstall, forget.

Not their fault you have unrealistic expectations.


It is and it isn't and that's the most diplomatic reply you're going to get.

Some other developers did manage to meet them (my expectations) later, so its not all about my "impossibly" high standards.

The same developer creating classics for the ages more than once is already highly improbable. In Bioware's case, they did it twice. It's just how creative work happens, never heard of a band than managed to keep making awesome for more than an album or two, either. :p


You are obviously no Queen fan o:)
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#12
entrerix

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blizzard had FIVE masterpieces before going semi-dormant on the quality front

warcraft
warcraft 2 (plus expansion)
diablo
diablo 2 (plus expansion)
starcraft (plus expansion)

the stuff they made later wasn't bad or anything, just not as good as what they had already done. fingers crossed for diablo 3 though!

#13
Auxilius

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Well, for ME3, Bioware dug its own grave. Between Origin, the DLCs, the forced romances, the forum that doesn't accept any criticism, the stock photos and the endings, it's hard to root for them.
If only it started with ME3. But to the previous mess I listed, you can add the horrible Dragon Age 2, the awful business practices that were enforced concerning SWTOR and the complete lack of good customer services. It's like they try their hardest to get such backlash.
Granted, it's not totally their fault. After all, they have to follow to some extent what their publisher says. Still, it doesn't excuse their lazyness and the quality drop in several games at once.

I never was a Bioware fan to begin with so I don't really mind but it's still saddening to see that a company that was supposed to make good RPGs back in the day goes to hell like that. KOTOR, NWN or Jade Empire weren't masterpieces but they were satisfying to play. Although considering how I love good writing above anything else in a video game, I couldn't ask for more.

Even Chris in KOTOR2 mocked Bioware's writing. Do you remember those lines from HK-47 where he calls Carth and Bastila completely neurotic? Then he adds the current crew doesn't seem to have such problems? I sure do. it was hilarious.

For the rest, I agree with the guys above. Play, uninstall, forget. I never was attached to my characters in their games. While with the Exile or the Knight-Captain, they were my heroes and what they did were the results of my own choices and actions, with Revan and the Neverwinter hero, it was just gun and run. I feel the same when I compare the Courier to the Lone Wanderer.
Props to the Knight-Captain by the way. You really get the chance to go through an impressive character arc with him.

#14
WorstUsernameEver

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You are obviously no Queen fan o:)


Well, Queen did some really awful stuff in the 80s, but yeah. And a lot of other bands too! You've set the limit way too low Nepenthe!

P.S. : "Forced romances"?

#15
aluminiumtrioxid

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I've never been much of a Bioware fan (played BG1 after the sequel, which kinda ruined it for me; NWN was just meh [for the record, I didn't like NWN 2 either]; and never played KotOR), but compared to the terrifying pile of crap they gave us in DA:O and ME2, DA2 and ME3 seem fairly solid games. These two at least manage to have an atmosphere, DA2 has some pretty strong moral aspects (I think it's actually better in this respect than Witcher), and ME3's gameplay is really enjoyable (plus the memorable [albeit sometimes cheesy] story elements and the fact that we spent quite a long time with the characters who, as a consequence, grew pretty close to us).

#16
entrerix

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P.S. : "Forced romances"?


whoa... whats this game rated?

#17
WorstUsernameEver

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P.S. : "Forced romances"?


whoa... whats this game rated?


I'm pretty sure it didn't imply that.

#18
Auxilius

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Forced romances as "You can't avoid the awkwardness and have to go through a romance to unlock some pieces of the scenario". Or as "we consider you as the worst nerds ever and will shove them down your threat until you take it willingfully" but that would be too radical. I have friends who think that way though. They think those romances went down a creepy way.
Concerning ME3, I must admit I never played more than the demo but as far as I know, it's the same than in ME2, meaning conversations are suddenly stopped with several characters unless you decide to get it on with one of them.
Damn was that bad in ME2. I just wanted to talk to people, not getting insulted because I couldn't choose or because I chose someone else when I thought I had to do that if I wanted to progress. It's like those characters were defined by their genitals, with nothing beyond that.
Besides, I tend to think like Chris. Romances in video games are only interesting if they are a way to convey something else. In KOTOR2 for example, it was a result of the Exile's Force Brainwashing and it was genuinely creepy to Visas pledge her life for him.
These romances were handled were better in ME1, when it wasn't a full feature nor marketed to death. Alas...

#19
Volourn

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"warcraft
warcraft 2 (plus expansion)
diablo
diablo 2 (plus expansion)
starcraft (plus expansion)"

Pretty mucha ll crap. Diablo 1 was okay.

P.S. there are no forced roamnces in any BIO game. Ever. Why do people feel the need to lie?

DA2 and ME3 are two of BIo's better games. BG1 is overrated (I know I overrated). KOTOR is definitely overrated as well.

P.S.S. Bio is in fine shape. They ain't the ones canceling projects left and right and firing people (oops my bad 'laying off'). L0L

Save your sympathies for the poor Obsidian peeps. :(

#20
Bos_hybrid

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Valve is still pumping out quality.

Besides ME3 was great except for the ending. The ending just happens to leave a sour final taste to the game.

Edited by Bos_hybrid, 16 March 2012 - 09:41 PM.





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