Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Piracy


  • Please log in to reply
128 replies to this topic

#21
Gorth

Gorth

    Global Moderator

  • Global Moderators
  • 9820 posts
  • Location:Germany

On the bright side, Indie developers are once again having the biggest heyday since the late eighties and early 90s in both acclaim and sales.

Says who? Sure as heck not the indie developers.

#22
greylord

greylord

    (8) Warlock

  • Members
  • 1053 posts

On the bright side, Indie developers are once again having the biggest heyday since the late eighties and early 90s in both acclaim and sales.

Says who? Sure as heck not the indie developers.


I'd say they are...they practically died out due to the costs and distributions during the late 90s and 2000s. In order to get a game that actually made a LOT of money you had to have a nice sized team of developers. You couldn't really go off on your own and start up something and have it compete with the likes of Warcraft 3, or Diablo 2. The Big box producers dominated the market.

Nowdays with Steam, Xbox Live, and digital distribution, along with the hostile way which the big producers treat customers, you get breakouts like Minecraft, new inspirations like Bastion, possibilities like Torchlight, banging down the doors of the big boys. It's the developers once again regaining some semblance of independance from the big brother Producers, and instead of simply producing the status quo, make things THEY want to make rather than what they are constrained to make.

Not only that, but it was the Indies that really took off on the smart phone phenomena and made money there...though the big boys are starting to try to force and shove their way in with their big money and huge political (at least electronic capital politics) pull into that market.

I'd say this is the day of the Indie...and it's only going to get better for them on the PC as the Big producers get more tightfisted on PC and/or move more towards consoles.

#23
Gorth

Gorth

    Global Moderator

  • Global Moderators
  • 9820 posts
  • Location:Germany

I'd say this is the day of the Indie...and it's only going to get better for them on the PC as the Big producers get more tightfisted on PC and/or move more towards consoles.

A few are successful despite piracy, not because if it. Check out the link Starwars posted for indie developer opinions.

#24
Humodour

Humodour

    Arch-Mage

  • Members.
  • 3563 posts

I'd say this is the day of the Indie...and it's only going to get better for them on the PC as the Big producers get more tightfisted on PC and/or move more towards consoles.

A few are successful despite piracy, not because if it. Check out the link Starwars posted for indie developer opinions.


"A few"?

http://store.steampo...om/genre/Indie/

#25
Gorth

Gorth

    Global Moderator

  • Global Moderators
  • 9820 posts
  • Location:Germany

"A few"?

http://store.steampo...om/genre/Indie/

Was there a point to that?

Not sure what a collection of product pages is supposed to tell. It doesn't show units sold, nor how much creativity gets killed off and fall by the wayside over a defined time period.

#26
Hurlshot

Hurlshot

    Obsidian Order Hockey Puck

  • Members
  • 7222 posts
  • Location:Gilroy, CA
  • Xbox Gamertag:Hurlshot
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
I agree that we are experiencing a great period of indie development. The success stories of Minecraft and Braid has really inspired a whole slew of folks to go for the indie dream. But the piracy still sucks for those indie developers. They are usually only asking for a few bucks and their hard work still gets ripped off with way too much regularity.

Piracy must be extremely frustrating for an indie developer. Don't give me any bull about free advertising either.

#27
greylord

greylord

    (8) Warlock

  • Members
  • 1053 posts

I agree that we are experiencing a great period of indie development. The success stories of Minecraft and Braid has really inspired a whole slew of folks to go for the indie dream. But the piracy still sucks for those indie developers. They are usually only asking for a few bucks and their hard work still gets ripped off with way too much regularity.

Piracy must be extremely frustrating for an indie developer. Don't give me any bull about free advertising either.


Piracy has always been a problem, not just for the Indie developer...but for all producers and creators of gaming. It goes back to at least the floppy days (remember...don't copy that floppy!).

The difference now is that the big time boys, the big Producers are literally pushing customers away and into the arms of the Indies, the Pirates, and the consoles whilst wondering why they are getting lower sales on their own games and putting the entire blame on the Pirates...instead of realizing that they are the cause of lost sales as well as there are other factors involved.

You can't remain openly hostile to your consumer base and expect to continue to expand in a market.

The Indies have gotten something which most producers haven't...that distribution, innovation and imagination...and not accusing your LEGAL customers of being the bad guys, may mean piracy still occurs...but it also means attaining a larger consumer base than you would have had you avoided those factors in the first place (unlike the status quo, DRM laden, just like the last game they released drudge that many big time game producers shove out the doors these days).

Pushing hostile DRM that punishes the consumer and treats them like criminals isn't a way to win customers...in fact I'm amazed that they even still have any customers with that approach. It's probably ALSO idiots like me who still buy that occasional computer game because we prefer PC overall...and will actually put up with a little evil meanheartedness from a Producer.

Still...even as I'm an idiot for occasionally buying these DRM things on PC...I do most of my gaming on a console these days.

Edited by greylord, 12 December 2011 - 10:18 PM.


#28
Hurlshot

Hurlshot

    Obsidian Order Hockey Puck

  • Members
  • 7222 posts
  • Location:Gilroy, CA
  • Xbox Gamertag:Hurlshot
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
The problem with your argument is that it should mean that indie games are less pirated than big budget DRM filled games. The evidence shows nothing of the sort, with some indie studios claiming that 90% of the people playing their games pirated them.

Even the Humble Indie Bundle that was offered for 0.01 cent was pirated by about 25% of the players. That's insane.

Edited by Hurlshot, 13 December 2011 - 08:11 AM.


#29
Malcador

Malcador

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 5405 posts
  • Location:Someplace in Canada
  • Xbox Gamertag:Pft, consoles.
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
Nah, that's not insane, just consistent. Kind of like pirating demos, which is odd but it's done. Heh, it does make me recall the developer that allowed people to pay what they want, then was annoyed that people chose to pay nothing.

#30
Walsingham

Walsingham

    Obsidian VIP

  • Members
  • 5625 posts
  • Location:The drawing room of Lady Muldoon's residence one morning in early spring
  • Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

The problem with your argument is that it should mean that indie games are less pirated than big budget DRM filled games. The evidence shows nothing of the sort, with some indie studios claiming that 90% of the people playing their games pirated them.

Even the Humble Indie Bundle that was offered for 0.01 cent was pirated by about 25% of the players. That's insane.


Absolutely agree. I mean WTF? Anyone who has cable internet can afford most indie games. Which is where indie games deliberately price themselves. Plus almost all other arguments fall over. There's no DRM, there's no evil corporate behaviour. Just good people trying to make great games and earn a living.

No offence, Malcador, but you can cram your 'consistency' up your exhaust flume. Being consistently a complete funtwit does make you less of a funtwit.

#31
Rosbjerg

Rosbjerg

    Global Moderator

  • Global Moderators
  • 4029 posts
  • Location:The State, in which something is rotten
It's not his fault that a segment of gamers are a-holes.. I'm thinking that kind of person simply pirate for the sake of it, their personal sticking-it-to-the-man, without realising (or perhaps simply refusing to) that this behaviour is detrimental to their interests.

#32
Orogun01

Orogun01

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2960 posts
  • Location:somewhere over the rainbow

Absolutely agree. I mean WTF? Anyone who has cable internet can afford most indie games. Which is where indie games deliberately price themselves. Plus almost all other arguments fall over. There's no DRM, there's no evil corporate behaviour. Just good people trying to make great games and earn a living.

No offence, Malcador, but you can cram your 'consistency' up your exhaust flume. Being consistently a complete funtwit does make you less of a funtwit.

DRM was never the cause, they probably rationalize as "why should they pay full price for a game made on a low budget?". Big budget games get pirated more simply because there's more exposure and demand for them.

#33
Malcador

Malcador

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 5405 posts
  • Location:Someplace in Canada
  • Xbox Gamertag:Pft, consoles.
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

No offence, Malcador, but you can cram your 'consistency' up your exhaust flume. Being consistently a complete funtwit does make you less of a funtwit.


Uh okay ? Point was it's nothing to be shocked at or more outraged over as it's expected as they're being "funtwits" with big games. The reported 25% was a lot lower than I was expecting though.

#34
Transcendent Prosper

Transcendent Prosper

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 15 posts
  • Location:Church of Prosper
finally got around to play arkham city, and is driven crazy by the fine scheme of wb games.
1. strip selina out of the game
2. regional restrict the vanilla game on steam few days before release day
3. ship boxed games with a grand chance of redeem code missing
4. regional restrict the dlc purchasing on windows marketplace while it actually sells the vanilla game
5. ask for solid proof for first-hand purchasing which excludes ebay-like platform
6. ?
7. profit!

#35
sorophx

sorophx

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 3211 posts

Even the Humble Indie Bundle that was offered for 0.01 cent was pirated by about 25% of the players. That's insane.

that's easy to explain. the majority of "pirates" are schoolkids that don't have the means to pay for a game online. they buy games in stores from time to time but the realization that they can get any game for free, for 12-16 year-old kids...

anyway, the point about pirating demos is also correct. it's habitual. they tend to check their favorite torrent trackers for all gaming news. so as soon as something pops up, they only need to press the DL button

Edited by sorophx, 17 January 2012 - 07:54 AM.


#36
Lexx

Lexx

    Adventurer of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 2046 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
Wonder how many people are buying a game only after downloading it. I mean, just because 10 people have downloaded a game, it doesn't mean that nobody of them ever will pay for it. Who knows how many of the 25% who downloaded the Humble Indie Bundle bought it later on.

#37
greylord

greylord

    (8) Warlock

  • Members
  • 1053 posts

Even the Humble Indie Bundle that was offered for 0.01 cent was pirated by about 25% of the players. That's insane.

that's easy to explain. the majority of "pirates" are schoolkids that don't have the means to pay for a game online. they buy games in stores from time to time but the realization that they can get any game for free, for 12-16 year-old kids...

anyway, the point about pirating demos is also correct. it's habitual. they tend to check their favorite torrent trackers for all gaming news. so as soon as something pops up, they only need to press the DL button


This is a biggie, more importantly the part of them having no means to pay for a game online. I suppose the sellers could start promoting kids to start stealing their parents Credit Cards and using that, but I think that would create more problems then are already in existence.

Right now the online thing is mostly people over the age of 18 I think, at least those buying...simply because a majority (meaning some have acces either via parents or otherwise) of kids under 18 don't have Credit Card access.

#38
Orogun01

Orogun01

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2960 posts
  • Location:somewhere over the rainbow

This is a biggie, more importantly the part of them having no means to pay for a game online. I suppose the sellers could start promoting kids to start stealing their parents Credit Cards and using that, but I think that would create more problems then are already in existence.

Right now the online thing is mostly people over the age of 18 I think, at least those buying...simply because a majority (meaning some have acces either via parents or otherwise) of kids under 18 don't have Credit Card access.

Do you agree when ask if you want your password to be remembered? Do you have a paper where you scribble all your multiple passwords? Or do you simply leave your wallet laying around in your room while you're elsewhere in the house? It's fairly easy for a kid to find their parents credit card information. It's even more easy for the naive parents to agree to buy a harmless game while inputing their credit card info and leaving it there for future uses. Which the kid may end up abusing.

In the end a kid may end up doing it because they want to play a mature game and their parents won't allow it. Or that they don't want to go through the hassle of being punished by their parents for buying games with their cards.

#39
pmp10

pmp10

    (7) Enchanter

  • Members
  • 866 posts

Even the Humble Indie Bundle that was offered for 0.01 cent was pirated by about 25% of the players. That's insane.

that's easy to explain. the majority of "pirates" are schoolkids that don't have the means to pay for a game online. they buy games in stores from time to time but the realization that they can get any game for free, for 12-16 year-old kids...

anyway, the point about pirating demos is also correct. it's habitual. they tend to check their favorite torrent trackers for all gaming news. so as soon as something pops up, they only need to press the DL button


This is a biggie, more importantly the part of them having no means to pay for a game online. I suppose the sellers could start promoting kids to start stealing their parents Credit Cards and using that, but I think that would create more problems then are already in existence.

Honestly I'm quite surprised that this is still a problem.
I know a lot of local services that can be used without any real age-checks by cell phone transactions.
Then again maybe expecting the youth to sacrifice so many SMSes is unreasonable.

#40
sorophx

sorophx

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 3211 posts
not every parent owns a credit card or a paypal account. China, Russia, Ukraine and such are the countries with the most piracy %. where the majority of the population lives below the level of poverty. they can try buy their kid an old PC, and that's about it.

fighting piracy in those countries is like "bees fighting honey"




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users