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What would you like to see in a Dungeon Siege IV?


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#201
stavrakis

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As a person who has played Dungeon siege 2, I feel DS3 was a step in the wrong direction. Although I appreciated the lore that came with it(mainly because I haven't played DS1), I was underwhelmed when it comes to gameplay. Personally, I believe it would be better to start off fresh from where DS2 left, and add RPG elements like those in modern games, while still preserving others that made DS2 what it is.

Since DS2 has been released long ago, a new DS4 made with DS2 in mind could very easily relate with it, but it wouldn't be obvious from the beginning due to the new content, except the identical lore and maybe returning characters, from DS2 and/or DS1, depending on the setting and the story progression.

For a start, the game could be made open-world. Seeing The Witcher 3 going from a dungeon-crawling-like game to an open world makes me think DS4 could follow the same path. I wouldn't want it to become a Skyrim clone or whatever, since that was a bit too thin for my taste, although pleasingly large.

 

My ideal DS4 would be a bit like this:

- Be open world. This could include decision-based changes in npc-player interaction, the usual day/night/weather cycle(and possibly seasons), shops/inns and lowly-mortal features like traders/stands, taverns, features that can exist in a magically-enhanced medieval setting that take away the idea of a world that rotates around the player, but acknowledge the player's strength and growing ability to save the world. Getting praised all the time in DS2 from characters I have never seen changed a lot when I had to create makeshift classrooms in Skyrim and have all the peasants sit down and be enlightened about the 'Dragonborn', and the minor dragon inconvenience. There should also be a period where the player is frowned upon for an action he either didn't do, or was not understood(like the king's assasination in The Witcher 2, the second cataclysm in DS2 where the player is blamed for destroying the world, etc). In DS3 I did not feel that the charcters were really tied with the world, as they were either not known, or lightly looked down upon by close-minded Ur-Shamesh and residents of Stonebridge that generally did not give a damn.

- Keep the 4-6 followers of DS2

- Take a manual combat system(I'm not sure how to call it) like DS3, or even better, hinting at TW2's combat system, instead of the RTS DS2 was. Also keep the ability to switch controlled character.

- Expand the reagent system into crafting, and introduce alchemy (but maybe not enchanting, to differentiate truly magical objects from mundane ones)

- Copy(and improve) the lootfest DS2 was, and make it rewarding by adding rare magical items that would be unobtainable by crafting, especially if enchanting would be omitted.

- The player character should be customizable like DS2, and dialogue could be adapted to make the player seem more like a real character instead of an abstract world-saver entity(getting called a 'mercenary' in DS2 got boring after a while). This also removes the need for preset characters and the need to alter the story to try and fit with each character's story.

- Have a skill tree like DS2, and also its gear management. DS3 characters felt like second-hand cars to me.

- Have the equivalent of new game+, with not only larger numbers when it comes to damage/health/etc, but have certain monsters, like bosses, have different/additional resistances/attack patterns/etc in each difficulty, forcing the player into a new challenge instead of only looking at increased stats.

- Have some epic story and a big danger to go with it. DS2 had the cataclysm and Valdis' conquest which affected the game greatly, as well as the return of the Familiars in DS2:Broken World. The only large-scale event in DS3 was archons falling from the sky, and unlike DS2, the only one who was affected was the player. In DS2, the "catastrophe" had a visible effect in the world, for example the two sieges, the city of Kalrathia being occupied by the Morden and freed by the player during the rebellion, and the great cataclysm. DS3 was just a small story about something that could've been much larger. I felt like I was doing chores for the 10th Legion, which was no longer a legion, but a 3-people clan, and it seemed like I ran into Jane Kassynder's forces on purpose instead of being hunted down.

- Also get Jeremy Soule to make the soundtrack

 

This is just my personal opinion, I know making a game is not easy, but there are some things I would really love to have them implemented.



#202
DungeonSiegeFanatic

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Where to begin.. First of all in my opinion Dungeon Siege 2 is one of the greatest games ever made. I signed up to this website simply to post my response to this thread.

I've never played Dungeon Siege 3 simply because I've seen the videos and it doesn't look anywhere near as good as Dungeon siege 2. 
So forgive me for suggesting something that may already have been implemented into dungeon siege 3.

What I loved about dungeon siege 2 and how i feel these things can be developed more.. theres a lot of things so bare with me..

1. I loved the colour coordination for the weapons... purple for unique items, yellow for an item from a set (people love to collect things, its a little similar to collecting pokemon cards in that respect) So for the fourth i'd love to see more colour coordination on the weapons and armour... e.g. Blue weapons that have water based powers,,, or red weapons with fire based powers. I love the way that the desire to collect all weapons in a set pushes you to the end of the game so to collect all the sets and unique weapons. What would be cool is to have white weapons and armour and these could be the God like weapons and armour. You could have sets of green weapons, sets of black armour. Will make the game much more fun and keep people playing for a long time, like me who has been playing dungeon siege 2 for 3 years with 3 level 90 files. Just completed the last file now with God like characters... 3 Nature mages, 1 Combat mage and 2 dual wielding melee characters.

2. I loved the vast combinations of the characters.. ie. 3 nature mages 3 combat mages or 2 archer with 4 nature mages. So I suggest 2 or 3 more classes of characters, such as a beast class, whereby you can control a werewolf or a troll and be able to equip them with armour and weapons. 

3.The summoned creatures were also a huge plus to dungeon siege 2, to develop this I think there should be more creatures that you can summon, or perhaps being able to summon more than one creature at a time, like a pack of wolves.

4. I loved the voices of the characters, all who had a good sounding voice as in they were nice people. All of which had there own morals. So this was another big plus of dungeon siege 2, you learn a lot of values and morals. Id like to see this implemented more into the 4th. More character dialogue.

5. The vast amount of enemies on dungeon siege 2 made the game very fun. Id love to see bigger enemies however and a more variety of enemies. Perhaps enemies which are also colour coded, like in dungeon siege 2 more powerful enemies had yellow rings around them, so as a suggestion have enemies with more colour coordination e.g. enemies could have blue rings around them and green rings around them, to signify which element or powers they have.

6. The powers of the characters. Loved them on dungeon siege 2, ive had some absolute destructive battles using them powers. So to improve, more powers, and not make it to complex, i thought dungeon siege 2 was easy to understand and navigate which powers you wanted to develop. I also think that in respect to my earlier suggestion of enemies colour coded with green and blue rings, that these creatures should have powers of there own. Making it more difficult and fun to fight these creatures.

7. More bosses. Dungeon siege 2 had some good bosses but there wasnt enough. Id love to see better looking enemies. The last boss valdis, was a little boring he was just a big guy in big armour with a big sword. Would have been better if the last boss was more of a mutant or alien looking creature with 7 heads or something. 

8. Storyline. Cant really fault the storyline of Dungeon siege 2, thought the concept of having two breeds of giants.. the utgards and agallans brought more mystical qualities to the game and also it ended with a surprise of the azunite schoar revealing himself to be a force of evil. So in the 4th, develop on that storyline, as it ended with the azunite scholar who was working for the utgards. I want to face that idiot and kill him. And i want to see the utgards.

9. More towns, villages and forces of good. If you think about Dungeon siege 2, evil forces vastly outnumbered the good forces. so id like to see more of a balance. Also have more evil cities, like in DS2 they had daarthul.

10. One of the downsides of DS2 were the pets. I thought they were boring and weak as you couldnt customize them enough. so in the 4th, allow pets that you can equip armour and weapons. And be able to customize there appearance more, i.e. what colour the fur of a wolf could be etc.

11. I liked the linear storyline, it should stick to this and not become like GTA or the elder scrolls franchise where you can choose the order of quests etc. I also liked how in DS2 there were slots for boots, gloves, helmet, rings etc. develop this by having more slots, for example perhaps for an helmet you could collect two halves of a helmet, one green coded half and one red coded half, and when placed in the two slots join together to boost powers. or simply have more slots for rings. maybe a slot for a spike on the greaves, whereby the spikes do different effects, maybe one could make an enemy bled more. So think more about this.

12. More male characters. too many female characters in DS2. 
More secret locations
More variety of chests.. colour code them again,, gold chests, green emerald chests, red ruby chests etc
More environments.. more forests, maybe underwater temple. more places of spiritual significance. More fortesses. 
More spells, with more elemental effects. More healing magic powers,,, the invulnerability power on DS2 was great, develop on this with more healing powers.
Limit the time between character discovery, i thought in DS2 the characters were to spread a part, i already had my 4 haracters nicely uprgraded before i came across Eva. So limit the time between this.

13. Definately make the start of the game more fun. Funny thing is when i first played DS2 i though it was rubbish and the graphics were lame, i actually left the game for months purely because the start didnt engage me enough, the beach was lame. Turns out though when i started playing again and got past the first part, i couldnt stop playing.

14. Very important factor is not to worry about graphics, DS2 graphics are minor compared to games made today, yet i stilled played it for 3 years. I think that more simple graphics makes the game more playable. Like in the zelda franchise I played all there games I was a zelda fanatic, and i saw the graphics of there twilight game i played it for a day and took it back to the shop, and i had been waiting for it for so long.

I have many more ideas but this is going long now.

P.s. bring back that azunite scholar, its time he is killed







 



#203
stavrakis

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Actually, the scholar/Overmage is killed in the Broken World expansion, where he becomes Zaramoth Reborn and is killed in the final boss fight :)



#204
DungeonSiegeFanatic

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Oh really, such an epic moment wasted in a lame expansion. They need to ressurect him so he can be killed in a more worthy manner.

I hadnt read your post above mine, i notice now that we have some similar ideas. I like your idea of having more taverns and inns etc I disagree with you on the manual combat system though. I liked how in DS2 you clicked to move, it enabled good control of all aspects of the game from collecting, to using spells. Im not sure if that what you mean by manual combat system so forgive me if i just stated a wrong ting.

A further idea that i might aswel say now, is having a larger storage box, i found a lot of unique items on DS2 and quickly ran out of space in the storage box, I had to prioritise which ones i thought were the coolest and it was difficult to get rid of some of them items.

I also liked the names of the unique items, like LifeWalk, Soul Burner etc all of which had some kind of human reference to the spiritual or material world.

More ideas include: Flying pets. Better chant system... i thought the chants were too many and didnt last long enough,,, also i think there should have been shirines less spread out to chant, and the ability to be able to disable a chant youve used, so that you could choose another one at the next nearby shrine. Erm could actually colour code them chants aswell, Green earth based chants etc. One of the most important factors to any game is how easy it is to understand and navigate through the quests, items, spells et. I thought DS2 got this spot on, was very easy to navigate.

Make another arena. That was one of the best feautures of DS2. However next time, after completing all the rounds, make it so you can still face creatures there, to test  your fighters if you wanted.

Another idea aswel, right before you face a boss, the screen pauses and you are given the option of what difficulty you want to face the boss e.g. Easy , Normal, Hard, Dungeon Siege Master. There should be no material rewards for the difference in difficulty. Simply just to boost player spiritual satisfaction.

What else. hmm, have rooms that contain like 15 huge chests. So that people will jizz there pants when they reach that room.

The money system was good on DS2, items were expensive, so it wasnt too easy to quickly develop characters. 

Definately improve on the archers aswel, Amren was lame with a queer voice. And vix was a skinny weakling. Deffo lack of fierce characters except for Sartan, but he was an idiot anyway cos he kiled an innocent in his side quest.

 

To the guy who wrote the message before mine, i think having seasons would be a great idea, night and day, snow and rain etc.

Perhaps another cool idea is to be able to collect food, which regenerate health, not just potions that became boring. Deffo should have had a green potion there.

For the beast class i mentioned in my previous post, i thought that to customize this if it were a werewolf, you could collect items like different kinds of claws, like some huge claws, and some metal diamond encrusted teeth etc.

Definately get some more romance in there! 

Also now im in some next thinking mode, in DS2 one of its downsides included the fact that the player was kept unawares of the movements of the resistance, all we know is theres snowbrook. who leads the resistance? Eva? well it isnt emphasized enough. In the 4th, Make Eva the Queen, and get some of the other DS2 characters in there! perhaps not as characters to play, but as legends to learn from. Or they could guide you, like the azunite scholar did.

Enough!!!!


 



#205
Bryy

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I really have to disagree on the "It has too be more like a CRPG/proper RPG" mentionings.

Manly because the reason that the combat system and all other things work so well in this game (especially compared to all other Obsidian Games) is BECAUSE the game is such a mix between Gauntlet like Hack n' Slash and CRPG. I'd certainly enjoy making the system more complex from the one we have now. But I'd hate if too much was changed and we'd end up with just another mess again. Keep it as an RPG-Lite with fun combat. Its not the worst thing in the world if Obsidian has one. There is a room for good hybrids as Mass Effect proved.

And honestly, what *is* a Proper RPG?



#206
Aoyagi

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And honestly, what *is* a Proper RPG?

 

Well, DS3 is very combat-focused. You don't get many choices there, be it story-wise or character-wise.

 

Disclaimer: Not meant as a critique, I enjoyed DS3 enough to do multiple runs



#207
Darque

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More... depth. <_<



#208
Amentep

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This thread would be better off at a Square Enix website as they are the IP owners (I think still).

 

I... don't think Square Enix is one of the companies that would care what its customers have to say. Not to mention non-Japanese customers >.>

 

 

Given that Square-Enix is trying to build to be a worldwide company and not a Japanese only company (look at the attempts to bring in new western developed games to their library like DS3, Tomb Raider, Deus Ex, Thief, Heroes and Generals, Murdered: Soul Suspect, Hitman, Absolution - out of western companies they've bought's IPs or with agreements with western companies) I'd think they might be more open to comments than you think. 

 

And - unlike Obsidian - they're the ones actually able to do something with the IP.  If DS4 ever happens, Obsidian may not be the developer.

 

EDIT: That doesn't mean its not fun to talk about here, though.


Edited by Amentep, 24 March 2014 - 01:21 PM.


#209
nipsen

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Did you noticed that every person who likes Dungeon Siege 3 dislike previous Dungeon Siege games? And, by the opposite way, every person who dislikes Dungeon Siege 3 is a traditional player of the Dungeon Siege Saga?

 

Nah, that's not true either. Instead, I think perhaps some of the people who were introduced to arpg/diablo+dialogue spinoffs with DS - just didn't play the kind of games that DS1&2 was actually a streamlined version of themselves. This would be infinity engine games, fallout 1&2, diablo to some extent.

 

Perhaps this type of gamer came from playing Majora's Mask and Ocarina of time, and thought DS was a massively complex thing, I don't know. I still hear people.. not that much younger than me either.. who play WoW and Guild Wars have this notion that these are basically old-school rpg-games with a twist. Rather than what they are, which is a streamlined action-oriented game that uses elements from the actual rpgs that really were story-driven, dialogue-heavy, and where the narrative was the part that carried the game, both in and outside of combat.

 

I mean, DS did a lot of things right. They did the 3d level designs for entire levels (which triumphantly returned in DS3 - something that no reviewers anywhere.. except for me damnit.. noticed or ever commented on). They had groups and fighting in groups that were deeper than what NWN eventually would do. Dynamic class systems, if impenetrable at first, were great. Random loot and enemies. It was the first game that attempted to go all 3d in that genre, and succeeded much more than it by rights should have been allowed to. 

 

I admit the two first games received a lot of bad press for idiotic reasons having to do with nostalgia even then. The action-oriented interface, some of the clunkiness that wasn't really possible to solve, etc.

 

But that being said - DS 1&2 were streamlined arpg spinoffs. Combat system was ok, not fantastic. Spells and powers didn't mesh as well as they perhaps should have with each other, in the context of the game, or against other powers in the game. Some of the writing was good, but most of it wasn't exactly thrilling. I mean, really, "you're a farmer and your world is turned upside down as creatures attack". Just.. no.

 

It all was a bunch of stuff that were an excuse to show off the levels and dungeons. With the graphics effects giving off the same impression to a cynic: they're eye-candy and were put in there because they could do it, not because the setting and story called for it. And with the unpolished surface putting people off who were used to seeing some imagination-tickling 2d images and distant overhead views of characters that they would drape with images they'd think up in their heads -- this kind of thing seems cheap and not very appealing.

 

DS3 simply improved on all of this. I agree that they should have worked on somehow managing to let you control the AI, instead of only really allowing the good dynamic fighting to happen in a co-op game. Perhaps by letting you pause and draw up events for the AI somehow. But from a design perspective, I know how difficult that would have been to pull off without making the controls extremely complex. So realistically speaking, by keeping the part dynamics and multiplayer in there, they did have one nod to the originals that I'm pretty sure Square Enix didn't care all that much about. Online mode as well is set up in such a way that you can filter parties on ping - there are things here that are old school, and that break utterly with the modus in the inhabited publisher dimensions that make DS3 a curious anomaly.

 

Writing is the same thing. Implementing alternative paths and responses depending on the character with voice-acting -- not really done that much now. Alternative paths in dialogue, and different outcomes depending on your choices - they are more varied and have more impact in DS3 than Mass Effect, which for some reason goes for being the gold standard in rpgs. Having full 3d world levels, rather than the tile-set horrors bioware has used for every single one of their games - again, it's not done, it takes too much time, and it's difficult to plan when fracturing the development process down to atomic disjointed bits before implementation takes place.

 

They did all of those things and had an easily playable action-rpg -- without going in the simplistic WoW direction, simple as that. 

 

So: two questions:

1. Why are people so enamored with DS1&2, when there are a lot - and I mean a lot - of action rpgs out there, older and newer, that do combat better? Why are either of the games liked for the style of writing, when.. etc.

2. How come people are fans of DS1&2, but don't see how many similar elements DS3 includes, and even perfects?

 

As with practically all things involving loud people in gaming communities who consistently never explain the thinking behind their statements -- it makes no sense. Sure, criticize the game for not meeting your expectations. Criticize it for not including your favourite feature, whether it was or wasn't included in the original games. Not saying you shouldn't criticize the game for whatever reason.

 

But you can't seriously come up with the idea that DS3 was so different from DS1&2 that it shouldn't even be called DS. And that any follow-up would be "streamlined" "even more", and therefore break apart from the DS "formula" even more completely. That's.. bonk. Idiotic. Sorry. Just.. had to say that.

 

----------

 

What I'd like to see happening for DS4 would be Square Enix to have some fantastically bright idea going on about an open world, free to play, region server sustained (Phantasy Star of old style) action-game. And pour millions of dollars over the Obsidian headquarters - and simply let them spend all the money on writing quests, creating mobs and playable characters, scripting scenarios and drawing 3d levels. In return for a prototype of a 3d engine capable of the same things DS3 did, just with better effects, more physics, and spell effect and ability interference (sword clashes, fire storm from wind gust on firewall, burning forests, styles of fighting adapting to the engagements, etc). So that you would have in-game, real-time action with strict network latency requirements, where a charge with a spear wouldn't be a kill-trade when met with a fireball the other way, etc.

 

Not that half of that is possible on current hardware, or that anyone has actually done anything remotely similar before. But hey, if people asked anyway, there it is.



#210
macroblitz

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I wish for the Donkey/Horse that is in DS and DS2 (Console).. that's not all, since i'm a little bit disappointed (after finishing DS3 normal mode in 1 day straight) in the PC version, there are so many things that it lacks, from the graphics, items/equipment, game play and strategies(hide,walk,crouch,backstab,snipe, and many more), up to the story.

 

I wish that DS4 would be better and competitive towards the innovation. Since new game releases today are so much good in all aspects. I wouldn't mind paying more for a better game, rather than paying and getting disappointed, and I also wouldn't mind downloading from steam a 20~40gb size game and play for a month (so much much better).

 

I love playing Dungeon Siege but DS3 is a no no, for me.

 

6 out of 10.



#211
Amentep

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In a perfect world, there would be a main DS series that keeps close to the spirit of gameplay of the original games, and side games that can explore different types of gameplay (like DS3) did.

I think, in many ways, the biggest flaw in marketing DS3 was it being named DS3 instead of Dungeon Siege: Subtitle. It just brings in too many expectations the game wasn't intended to meet.

#212
duydome

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I'm an easy going gamer, I know ds3 gameplay didn't good as ds2. But After some patches and dlcs for PC, It's now much more enjoyable and fun, Im really into it by its good story. If only its gameplay can get longer with item diversity, more races,... like Dragon age, It would be GREAT. :( Hope they're not going to give up the dungeon siege series.



#213
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I absolutely loved the first two dungeon sieges. They were so unlike any game and they were one of my favorite games. No other game had the party system and the gameplay of those two. When I found out they were making a third one I was ecstatic. When I bought the game, I was utterly disappointed. It was so unlike the first two. It was just like any other hack'n'slash game. The party system was gone and that was the best part. I would love to see a modern version of the first two. I would buy that game in an instant. If it the 4th one will be like the third, don't even bother making it. A combination of the first two with the third would be ideal. 



#214
David13

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Anything that is DS2 would be quite good to see again and pls nothing that is DS3. Everything was wrong with DS3...just everything...IF (I doubt it) this game will have another episode, it has to be like DS2 or it will fail miserabily just like 3 did. DS 3 ruined the franchise and it is why there is no 5 in sight and probably never will be because after 3 nobody wants to take the risk of another dungeon siege. But thing is Dungeon siege is not responsible for the ****-up that is DS3. They could very well ignore DS3 and just make a DS4. One that is set immediately after DS2 Broken World



#215
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If there is going to be a Dungeon Siege 4 in development anytime in the near future, I'd like to see it like the first Dungeon Siege. I think keeping to the same stats as DS1 with strength, dexterity, intelligence, combat, range, and nature/combat magic would be great for DS4. In my opinion, the leveling system in DS1 seems to be one of the significant features that made it a core game along with the variety of items, monsters, and geographical environments. And of course, it being a "hack n' slash" game makes it unique from other role-playing/free-roam games. But overall, the two things that I would like to see in a DS4 is, DS1 features/interfaces and a fun/competitive multiplayer. The multiplayer in DS1 was fun when being able to run around with other users (I think up to 8?) clearing out dungeons and fighting each other. Perhaps there can be a dynamic and objective multiplayer implemented in a DS4? Also, to add a third thing I'd like to see or "hear" in DS4 is  game music made by Jeremy Soule. 



#216
xDAxRaziel

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Dungeon Siege IV needs to stay true in story and visuals to the first Dungeon Siege game (improved graphics of course), with the customization options of Dungeon Siege 2 (class system, race, appearance, leveling etc). Functionally the game should build upon the mechanics of the first two. Keep the RTS/Diablo like controlling (left click for move and right click for attack) and improve on the power function you could use in Dungeon Siege 2. More enemies and of course they should respawn after a while. The most important bits: Dont make it MMO. Dont just make it for the PC. And keep adding content until people start screaming for a NEW DUNGEON SIEGE GAME!



#217
WickedPrince

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I really loved the first two games, and their game play style. I had hoped that DS3 would continue on that, but it didn't, which I found lamentable. Additionally I couldn't get the style of gameplay for DS3 so I wasn't able to get past the first real boss fight. It was so hard to play over-all that even though I tried each character I wasn't able to get much beyond the first zone with the fight against the Czarni Witch, if I was even able to complete that fight. The companions felt completely useless too. If they were going to do a better DS4 they need to go back to the style of DS2 and build on that. Otherwise DS3 felt like a bad Diablo 2 clone with four classes that were poorly implemented.



#218
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Been a huge fan of dungeon siege 1 and 2, the third installation was such a disappointment for me. I have played dungeon siege for about 10 times now and it my personal best RPG. I would like to present my recommendations for the IV installation.

 

1) Open world : Dungeon Siege 1 has one of the best open world in RPG's history. Stick to it and bring back Chris Taylor as the designer.

2) Music : One of the best feel good music of all times, please bring it back in the fourth game.

3) Party : One of the main feature that everyone loved.

4) Skill system : Dungeon siege 1 skill system was awesome. let it be

 

In short Just take dungeon siege 1 and enhance it with bigger world, better visuals, loot, characters (Humans, Elves, dwarfs e.t.c), weapons, in-depth story and it will do just fine.

 

 

Thanks 



#219
MeteorBear

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More characters  

Free respecing for your characters

More 1st stance skills that synergize with second stance skills.

Less skills that are useless 

GOTY editions so I dont have to download dlc

 

Can't think of much else. DSIII for me was a near perfect couch co op game, and so much better than Diablo III. Hope to see another one from Obsidian.


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#220
Chaotic Good

Chaotic Good

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I played ds 1/2 and am playing 3 now I like three the best by far. As far as additions I would really like to see new game + with much more difficult save point placement and maybe a ng++ with no save points and advanced boss tactics. 






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