Jaesun Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 ME2's PC sales were very low AFAIK. I do not remember EA/BioWare ever mentioning exact sales numbers for ME2, or a mention of disappointment in sales. Or if NDP released some sales numbers. So that basically remains an unknown. Agreed, there's no data that says ME2's PC sales were exceptional in any way. I'd still be hella surprised if they were more than symbolic in comparison to the x360+ps3 sales. Yeah. As someone who actually does Sales Data Analysis, I'd love to the see actual sales numbers for ME2 PCvsPS3vsXBox360. Some of my Youtube Classic Roland MT-32 Video Game Music videos | My Music | My Photography Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 bioware and ea has spent literal millions o' dollars and no little time and effort to make the mass effect franchise popular. is not like kotor wherein bio made lucas' property more valuable... or bg and nwn, which belonged ultimately to hasbro. ea/bio now has themselves a very valuable property that belongs to no other outside entity. so, how does one squeeze more money outta this very ripe tomato? could make more mass effect games much like the firstest 3. they could sell-off bits and pieces o' the franchise rights. they could also go the mmo route with its big risk v. bigger rewards scenario. why wouldn't ea wanna get some feedback o' mass effect mp from potential millions o' test subjects? seems like a no-brainer as to why ea/bio would throws in an mp aspect to the final mass effect game. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorstUsernameEver Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 bioware and ea has spent literal millions o' dollars and no little time and effort to make the mass effect franchise popular. is not like kotor wherein bio made lucas' property more valuable... or bg and nwn, which belonged ultimately to hasbro. ea/bio now has themselves a very valuable property that belongs to no other outside entity. so, how does one squeeze more money outta this very ripe tomato? could make more mass effect games much like the firstest 3. they could sell-off bits and pieces o' the franchise rights. they could also go the mmo route with its big risk v. bigger rewards scenario. why wouldn't ea wanna get some feedback o' mass effect mp from potential millions o' test subjects? seems like a no-brainer as to why ea/bio would throws in an mp aspect to the final mass effect game. HA! Good Fun! Uhm.. Gears of War-like 4-players co-op missions are hardly good feedback for an MMO, even one with third person shooter mechanics. Of course, I have no idea what EA/BioWare plans are so you may very well be right. Limiting second-hand sales seems a more likely explanation to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Not just limiting them via the pass, also trying to make it more likely that people will hold on to it for a longer time. (Personally, have never bought a 2nd hand game nor ever will, so any views I have on the matter are even more theoretical than usually ) You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 bioware and ea has spent literal millions o' dollars and no little time and effort to make the mass effect franchise popular. is not like kotor wherein bio made lucas' property more valuable... or bg and nwn, which belonged ultimately to hasbro. ea/bio now has themselves a very valuable property that belongs to no other outside entity. so, how does one squeeze more money outta this very ripe tomato? could make more mass effect games much like the firstest 3. they could sell-off bits and pieces o' the franchise rights. they could also go the mmo route with its big risk v. bigger rewards scenario. why wouldn't ea wanna get some feedback o' mass effect mp from potential millions o' test subjects? seems like a no-brainer as to why ea/bio would throws in an mp aspect to the final mass effect game. HA! Good Fun! Limiting second-hand sales seems a more likely explanation to me. that would make more sense if it actually prevented second-hand purchasers from making use o' the game. only Potentially limits the folks who is needing to play the mp aspect o' the game. spend how much extra money to develop, integrate and test mp just to limit a % o' second-hand purchasers? doesn't make much sense to us. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorstUsernameEver Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 bioware and ea has spent literal millions o' dollars and no little time and effort to make the mass effect franchise popular. is not like kotor wherein bio made lucas' property more valuable... or bg and nwn, which belonged ultimately to hasbro. ea/bio now has themselves a very valuable property that belongs to no other outside entity. so, how does one squeeze more money outta this very ripe tomato? could make more mass effect games much like the firstest 3. they could sell-off bits and pieces o' the franchise rights. they could also go the mmo route with its big risk v. bigger rewards scenario. why wouldn't ea wanna get some feedback o' mass effect mp from potential millions o' test subjects? seems like a no-brainer as to why ea/bio would throws in an mp aspect to the final mass effect game. HA! Good Fun! Limiting second-hand sales seems a more likely explanation to me. that would make more sense if it actually prevented second-hand purchasers from making use o' the game. only Potentially limits the folks who is needing to play the mp aspect o' the game. spend how much extra money to develop, integrate and test mp just to limit a % o' second-hand purchasers? doesn't make much sense to us. HA! Good Fun! New copy DLC has been a strategy EA has been using for a while, and with BioWare too, just see the Cerberus Network in Mass Effect 2 or Shale in Dragon Age: Origins. Multiplayer is particularly hefty, yeah, but we're still talking about a small self-contained (for the most part) mode that EA also probably believes may increase sales. Again, it may very well be that you're right, I'm just not seeing how they could gather MMO-related data from it, since I doubt an MMO would have a similar structure and I think (but I'm not a programmer) that the network code would be pretty damn different too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 bioware and ea has spent literal millions o' dollars and no little time and effort to make the mass effect franchise popular. is not like kotor wherein bio made lucas' property more valuable... or bg and nwn, which belonged ultimately to hasbro. ea/bio now has themselves a very valuable property that belongs to no other outside entity. so, how does one squeeze more money outta this very ripe tomato? could make more mass effect games much like the firstest 3. they could sell-off bits and pieces o' the franchise rights. they could also go the mmo route with its big risk v. bigger rewards scenario. why wouldn't ea wanna get some feedback o' mass effect mp from potential millions o' test subjects? seems like a no-brainer as to why ea/bio would throws in an mp aspect to the final mass effect game. HA! Good Fun! Limiting second-hand sales seems a more likely explanation to me. that would make more sense if it actually prevented second-hand purchasers from making use o' the game. only Potentially limits the folks who is needing to play the mp aspect o' the game. spend how much extra money to develop, integrate and test mp just to limit a % o' second-hand purchasers? doesn't make much sense to us. HA! Good Fun! New copy DLC has been a strategy EA has been using for a while, and with BioWare too, just see the Cerberus Network in Mass Effect 2 or Shale in Dragon Age: Origins. Multiplayer is particularly hefty, yeah, but we're still talking about a small self-contained (for the most part) mode that EA also probably believes may increase sales. Again, it may very well be that you're right, I'm just not seeing how they could gather MMO-related data from it, since I doubt an MMO would have a similar structure and I think (but I'm not a programmer) that the network code would be pretty damn different too. is not genuine parallel, is it? as you note, shale and cerberus ain't nearly as resource intensive to develop, implement, and test. the stuff you mentions were, if not simple additions, they were part o' the core development o' the game... just makes people needs pay to get some aspect that were effective part o' the core game. in any event, the mp missions is not something that a sp only player is gonna be feeling like they is missing out on, is they? everybody who played da:o played sp, so an sp feature coulds potential appeal to every player. not every player o' me3 is gonna want to make use o' the mp aspect... is far more limited in terms o' potential appeal. so, ea spends more money on an aspect that gots less chance o' discouraging second hand? would also like to point out that neither shale nor cerberus prevented second hand. just doesn't make sense to us as a second-hand deterrent. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meomao Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) would also like to point out that neither shale nor cerberus prevented second hand. just doesn't make sense to us as a second-hand deterrent. But the point is not only to prevent, but to make 10 dollars out of every used copy. Consider that you will be even able to go "solo" with the missions in the MP part. But you will have to do it online, wich is a bit of a nonsense if not in sight of the unfamous "project 10 dollars". Edited October 16, 2011 by meomao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 would also like to point out that neither shale nor cerberus prevented second hand. just doesn't make sense to us as a second-hand deterrent. But the point is not only to prevent, but to make 10 dollars out of every used copy. No, the point IS to prevent, the 10 dollar price tag is to make a new copy the more attractive choice. You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fighter Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 It might not prevent second hand on some massive scale. But money is money. People will always think twice if they are not getting the complete game buying second hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meomao Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) No, the point IS to prevent, the 10 dollar price tag is to make a new copy the more attractive choice. I don't know: at the end both those results are not exclusive and that's why EA is forcing MP in most franchise they own. They are making money out of MP. They want their share of the used market: they know that they cannot fight second hand sales. A used copy of a consolle game costs 20-30 euros (and you can rent them for less). A new copy of a game costs 60 euros. If I'm in the mood for used games and waiting a couple of weeks, the choice is a no brainer. Then, if I really like the game and want to try the MP, I will spend 10 dollars for the EA online pass. It's still 30-40 euros against 60. Edited October 16, 2011 by meomao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 If they can get $10 off each 2nd hand sale it is most definitely worth doing. To pluck figures from the sky, if there were 1 million second hand sales (probably conservative) over its lifetime and you could get everyone to buy an online pass (hopelessly optimistic) that's an extra $10 million straight to EA which is almost certainly far more than the MP would cost to develop and probably about half the game's entire budget. Given that there will almost certainly be few if any non-code assets unique to MP (ie its art, sounds, VO etc will almost entirely come from the 'base' game) and UE3's inherent MP friendliness it should be at worst revenue neutral just on that basis. As mentioned previous, there is also the possibility of driving Origin on PC (to encourage cutting of the DD/ retail middleman) and MP DLC packs too I'd also put money on them really wanting a 'friendly' DRM for PC which will put a bit of a dent in this* and encourage people to buy. Basic alterations and bonuses like DLC packs do not accomplish that as they just get pirated as well, and at least good-MP-as-DRM gives some 'benefits'. *Probably about as accurate as a set of VGChartz sales figures, but very likely something EA has to take seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fighter Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 One thing I've been wondering. So what exactly is an on-line pass that you can't pass it on to another user? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) admission-- am gonna freely concede that our observations is colored by our personal lack o' anticipation regarding the mp functionality o' me3. no doubt there is loads o' folks who is genuine anticipating the mp in me3, but our desire to use is zero. compare to shale-- even if we had no particular enthusiasm regarding shale, we recognized that we would get use from her as the character and her related quest were part o' the single player game we purchased. on the other hand, assume for a second that warden's keep had been a day 1 offering that were only playable as a co-op mp quest. if warden's keep were mp, then we would never have played.... woulda' been complete superfluous content for Gromnir. if a person purchases a sp game, you can be pretty certain that the individual wants to play a sp game. speaking from personal experience, not every person who purchases a sp game would have interest in mp functionality. that being said, we recognize that our complete lack o' interest regarding mp content very well could put us in some extreme minority. wouldn't be the first time for us to be in the minority. HA! Good Fun! Edited October 16, 2011 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 One thing I've been wondering. So what exactly is an on-line pass that you can't pass it on to another user? One use code tied to an account- like a serial number for a PC game, basically. If you then want to reuse/ resell the code you have to sell the entire account along with it which is not really practical in most cases. EA does have a webpage describing it, this is the description for the PS3 version of Dead Space 2 which ought to be generally equivalent by the looks of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meomao Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) that being said, we recognize that our complete lack o' interest regarding mp content very well could put us in some extreme minority. wouldn't be the first time for us to be in the minority. HA! Good Fun! I wasn't planning to play the MP too. But yesterday I've read that you can solo those missions: co-op mode is not forced on players. While the connection with the main game with all the "galaxy readiness" stuff does not make a lot of sense to me and I would preferred them being completely separated experiences, now I think that I could give it a go since I find that ME2 combat is quite fun and it could be even funnier to play as a Krogan or an Asari without all the cinematic interrupting a mission. Honestly, if EA would force online content on all their game and stop with the day 1 DLC stuff, I would be happier. Edited October 17, 2011 by meomao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 No, the point IS to prevent, the 10 dollar price tag is to make a new copy the more attractive choice. I don't know: at the end both those results are not exclusive and that's why EA is forcing MP in most franchise they own. They are making money out of MP. They want their share of the used market: they know that they cannot fight second hand sales. A used copy of a consolle game costs 20-30 euros (and you can rent them for less). A new copy of a game costs 60 euros. If I'm in the mood for used games and waiting a couple of weeks, the choice is a no brainer. Then, if I really like the game and want to try the MP, I will spend 10 dollars for the EA online pass. It's still 30-40 euros against 60. It's my understanding that the "source of all evil", gamestop, charges significantly more than 20-30, closer and sometimes over 50 for used games. I could be mistaken, since, as I believe I mentioned already in this thread, I have never bought a used game and never will. You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meomao Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 It's my understanding that the "source of all evil", gamestop, charges significantly more than 20-30, closer and sometimes over 50 for used games. I could be mistaken, since, as I believe I mentioned already in this thread, I have never bought a used game and never will. I play on PC for 90% of my time and having Steam salses and such, there is no point in buying used. I own a PS3 that I've used for the very few titles I'm interested in that do not get a port. I've buyed Red Dead Redemption used at my local Gamestop (it's the only game I've buyed used ever) last october/november and payed it 30 euros. But I live in Italy, I do not know what happens in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entrerix Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 i dont buy used, i just wait for sales on amazon or steam to buy my games cheap Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 ME3 will use Origin, so probably will only increase in price over time. R00fles! The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entrerix Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 why won't ME3 use the same drm as ME2? is it confirmed to be different? Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serrano Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) It's probably to get people to use Origin more than anything else. EA want to compete with Steam and they seem to be trying to strong-arm people into using it by making the service compulsary with some of their top franchises like Mass Effect and Battlefield. Not that there haven't been games that required Steam to run either. The Old Republic was said to require Origin until recently but now it seems that it won't (According to a post by a Bioware dev on the TOR official forum). Edited October 18, 2011 by Serrano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entrerix Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 can origin run offline like steam? does anyone know anything about how it works? if its like steam and you just need to activate once and then can use it offline forever then i guess thats ok...... do i have to actually download origin and keep it on my pc? Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) can origin run offline like steam? does anyone know anything about how it works? if its like steam and you just need to activate once and then can use it offline forever then i guess thats ok...... do i have to actually download origin and keep it on my pc? In my experience, yes to all. Doesn't feel too intrusive to me, but then again, I have to boot to another OS to play games in the first place, so my tolerance for annoyance is probably pretty high in this matter. ME3 being origins only isn't confirmed for the moment, but definitely likely in the current climate. Edited October 18, 2011 by Nepenthe You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 does anyone know anything about how it works? if its like steam and you just need to activate once and then can use it offline forever then i guess thats ok...... do i have to actually download origin and keep it on my pc? At present, Origin works similarly to Impulse, ie you can download/ install via Origin then actually uninstall Origin without breaking the games. The strong suspicion is that all future EA titles will use it and that it will need to be running at least for MP, as I would presume that Origin will be used pretty much exclusively for things like matchmaking/ achievement handling as it gives a unified framework to work towards and should cut down on costs. Having said that, BF3 at least of their upcoming titles does use an external browser for servers. can origin run offline like steam? Randomly spew "You must be online to go offline" errors and the like? I'd certainly prefer a GfWL (!) style offline profile system where you don't necessarily even have to go online. It's probably to get people to use Origin more than anything else. EA want to compete with Steam and they seem to be trying to strong-arm people into using it by making the service compulsary with some of their top franchises like Mass Effect and Battlefield. Not that there haven't been games that required Steam to run either. The Old Republic was said to require Origin until recently but now it seems that it won't (According to a post by a Bioware dev on the TOR official forum). The SWTOR clarification was on the download vs retail issue, iirc. The download version is exclusive to Origin but it isn't bundled with retail (I would expect some 'encouragement' to drive installs though). And it's just about exactly equivalent to the Valve/ Steam /HL2 situation, really, sans Origin needing to be running at all times when playing (at present). Bundle with popular game: instant market share plus more $$$ in future- also the reason for steamworks being used as loss-leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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