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SIE: Feminist or no? (spoilers)


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14 replies to this topic

#1
lord of flies

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I have a confession to make: I really like SIE. But I'm not sure that I should.

SIE is a great character. She's a very direct approach type of woman (regarding sex or combat) and her being so flirtatious is actually really ****ing funny. It's like it moves past cringe-inducing pandering to 14 year old boys and into SIE being that way, as a human being.

But on the other hand, the other three love interests are different, in a positive way. They aren't defined by their sexuality or your ability to have sex with them, unlike love interests in certain other games. It's perfectly plausible that you could play through the entire game without realizing that Mina/Madison/Scarlet were love interests. While it's certainly possible that you could miss that SIE is (some dude didn't get what Confirmed Bachelor meant in Fallout New Vegas), she is not on the same level at all.

SIE has other character traits, of course. She's an "aggressive" character, she likes blowing things up. She lives life to the fullest, I guess you might describe it, and her sexuality is just one (loud) part of that personality.

The thing is, though, I'm not sure that I can think of much else of her character. I probably wouldn't accept that alone as an excuse, but then there's the ending to her love interest arc, and it really pays the bill. Just as every previous interaction with you on the subject of sex has been dominated by her (if you're actually romancing her, you have to say "thanks, but no thanks" to pretty much every comment she makes) and she dominates the sex act itself when she basically rapes you (though you can avoid this fate by choosing the other option, so it's not "really" rape).

I don't know, this is kinda rambling. Thoughts?

Edited by lord of flies, 23 February 2011 - 01:56 PM.


#2
Sannom

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She certainly isn't a feminist icone, that description goes better for Scarlet. Plus, I like to call her "Rambo on steroids", so she's not really feminine either. I like the way you describe her : she lives her life at the fullest, with hardly a care in the world, simply enjoying herself. Like Heck, she's a sort of outcast and definitely enjoys it. Her 'romance' stays in that theme too, she takes what she wants when she wants, no sentimentalism, just the present enjoyement.

So yeah, not a feminist. A good thing she isn't too, because it would be way too caricatutal.

#3
lord of flies

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She certainly isn't a feminist icone, that description goes better for Scarlet. Plus, I like to call her "Rambo on steroids", so she's not really feminine either. I like the way you describe her : she lives her life at the fullest, with hardly a care in the world, simply enjoying herself. Like Heck, she's a sort of outcast and definitely enjoys it. Her 'romance' stays in that theme too, she takes what she wants when she wants, no sentimentalism, just the present enjoyement.

So yeah, not a feminist. A good thing she isn't too, because it would be way too caricatutal.

I should have been clearer. Obviously, the character SIE is not (explicitly) a feminist. She's former Stasi, so I'd assume she's pretty feminist, but that's not what I was trying to get at.

Is the way that SIE is written feminist? Does her character exist in order to be sexualized or does her sexuality exist in order to fit her character? Given her ownership of her own sexuality, and the fact that it is just one element of her character, I'd tend to say the latter over the former, but it's much more of an edge case than the other love interests (or Sis, for that matter).

Edited by lord of flies, 23 February 2011 - 07:10 PM.


#4
C2B

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SIE rapes the male protagonist/player.

Think about said situation a second time and it comes pretty clear to which group she belongs. If you can actually get her into a group.

Edited by C2B, 24 February 2011 - 02:02 PM.


#5
lord of flies

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SIE rapes the male protagonist/player.

Think about said situation a second time and it comes pretty clear to which group she belongs. If you can actually get her into a group.

It's not rape. If you pick the "No Way In Hell" option, she doesn't have sex with you.

#6
C2B

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SIE rapes the male protagonist/player.

Think about said situation a second time and it comes pretty clear to which group she belongs. If you can actually get her into a group.

It's not rape. If you pick the "No Way In Hell" option, she doesn't have sex with you.


? I'm pretty sure she did in my game. Or did I hit a bug there?

#7
Dabu

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I think it depends on reputation. If it's high, no matter what you say, you'll get raped. :'P

Edited by Dabu, 25 February 2011 - 05:58 AM.


#8
lord of flies

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I think it depends on reputation. If it's high, no matter what you say, you'll get raped. :'P

I went to redo the last level to check a while back. I had a 10 Rep and picked the "No" option, and SIE accepted it.

#9
Sannom

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? I'm pretty sure she did in my game. Or did I hit a bug there?


The build-on to that scene implies so much that she's going to rape him that you probably misremember it. Before the player gets to choose, she has already discarded her pants and is on top of Michael. One would think that at this point, his opinion doesn't matter anymore.

Edited by Sannom, 25 February 2011 - 09:57 AM.


#10
C2B

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? I'm pretty sure she did in my game. Or did I hit a bug there?


The build-on to that scene implies so much that she's going to rape him that you probably misremember it. Before the player gets to choose, she has already discarded her pants and is on top of Michael. One would think that at this point, his opinion doesn't matter anymore.


No. It wasn't that. I'm sure I got the scene even though I said No.

Maybe if you have a too low repuation...

#11
Starwars

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I've definitely said No to her and had it work. And of course, if you don't have high rep with her, she won't try it in the first place.

#12
C2B

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I've definitely said No to her and had it work. And of course, if you don't have high rep with her, she won't try it in the first place.


Yeah, then something went wrong on my side.

#13
Sannom

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Well, a reputation of 7 with her, and she left me alone when I said no. Does Mike's refusal change depending on his history? In my playthrough, he told her he was already in love with someone.

Also, I like that if you refuse, you get to know a little more of her personality and how she sees life in the dialog that ensues. That was nice.

#14
Calax

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She's contrary, that's for sure.

I think the higher your relationship with her is the more likely she's gonna ignore what you say and get what she wants from you.



...


Is she based on Catherine the Great?

#15
obliviondoll

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Don't know about the later part of the discussion, but I'm pretty sure, in answer to the OP, that the aggressive sexuality of the character is just one expression of her aggressive nature.

She's not a feminist figure in the game, she's just an aggressive personality who happens to be female, and directing her aggression at a male most of the time you meet her (namely because you ARE the male in question).




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