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SIE is in her FOURTIES?!


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111 replies to this topic

#81
Manx

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Actually, even the most stingy reviews agree on one thing - the story and the dialogue is good. Alpha Protocol's flaws lie in its gameplay, not in its story or its characters.

Greater approachability does not equal dumbing down. Adding complexity to the characters is one thing, and in that regard Obsidian did an adequate job (though, as with all things, there is room for improvement), but adding more relationship drama for the sake of "originality" to the romances would be a mistake, and just come across as gratuitous - unwanted and unnecessary.

#82
Oner

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Actually, even the most stingy reviews agree on one thing - the story and the dialogue is good. Alpha Protocol's flaws lie in its gameplay, not in its story or its characters.

Uh-huh, that's why there were some mentioning bland characters, bad VA and nonsense story.

#83
Amentep

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In some ways it seems like the one thing that can be agreed upon is that no one can agree upon what is good/bad about AP...(ooo, new fodder for the conspiracy theories! :bow:)

#84
zkylon

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Actually, even the most stingy reviews agree on one thing - the story and the dialogue is good. Alpha Protocol's flaws lie in its gameplay, not in its story or its characters.

Greater approachability does not equal dumbing down. Adding complexity to the characters is one thing, and in that regard Obsidian did an adequate job (though, as with all things, there is room for improvement), but adding more relationship drama for the sake of "originality" to the romances would be a mistake, and just come across as gratuitous - unwanted and unnecessary.

Gratuitous, unwanted and unnecessary is exactly how i feel quest reward romances.

In any case, i think AP's story and dialogue is for the most part good, but romance is at fault. It felt more Bioware-ish than Bond-ish to me. Except SIE. SIE was great.

#85
loke13

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No it doesn't.


to early 20's)


Hey, if we cut that quote down even more to just 20, we can claim that the game states her age as 20!

Except it doesn't. The dossier suggests based on her appearance she could possibly be in her 20's, but then the news report contradicts that by pointing out she is teenage girl.

And considering the 16 is legal in Europe so it'd okay for Mike to have sex with her argument some folks put forth, it shouldn't even be necessary to insist that she could be in her 20's.


Well it does say body of a teenage girl is found. So its possible there just going off of looks. So she could very well be 20.

Edited by loke13, 15 June 2010 - 03:26 PM.


#86
Zoraptor

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Gratuitous, unwanted and unnecessary is exactly how i feel quest reward romances.

In any case, i think AP's story and dialogue is for the most part good, but romance is at fault. It felt more Bioware-ish than Bond-ish to me. Except SIE. SIE was great.

Really? I somewhat agree on Scarlet and Mina (could just as easily have done with one or either of them) but Madison? It would be a lot harder job finding a woman he was protecting that Bond didn't sleep with (exc Judi Dench) than those he did.

#87
Manx

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Uh-huh, that's why there were some mentioning bland characters, bad VA and nonsense story.

Please note that few people take the Destructoid review seriously.

Gratuitous, unwanted and unnecessary is exactly how i feel quest reward romances.

In any case, i think AP's story and dialogue is for the most part good, but romance is at fault. It felt more Bioware-ish than Bond-ish to me. Except SIE. SIE was great.

That just personal opinion, then. As has been said, most romances have to follow the straightforward quest model out of necessity - they must have a beginning and an end. So far, it's worked out pretty well, as there is plenty of room for good characterization in this model. Again, if you want the intricacies of an actual relationship, you'd have to turn to real life.

Edited by Manx, 15 June 2010 - 07:00 PM.


#88
zkylon

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That just personal opinion, then. As has been said, most romances have to follow the straightforward quest model out of necessity - they must have a beginning and an end. So far, it's worked out pretty well, as there is plenty of room for good characterization in this model. Again, if you want the intricacies of an actual relationship, you'd have to turn to real life.

Missed the point entirely.

#89
Manx

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The "point" was that you just state an opinion, and a debatable one at that.

Edited by Manx, 15 June 2010 - 07:05 PM.


#90
Cl_Flushentityhero

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This thread bothers me more than any design choices Obsidian made about the romances. Not so much the serious discussion of what in-game romances should be as the original topic.

Edited by Cl_Flushentityhero, 15 June 2010 - 08:04 PM.


#91
zkylon

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The "point" was that you just state an opinion, and a debatable one at that.

What else would it be? Instead of wasting your time questioning how debatable my opinion is, read it. Maybe you'd find what to debate about instead of sticking to the same "if you want romance look in real life" argument. That answer just doesn't make any sense.

#92
Manx

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No, you've made your opinion on the in-game romances quite clear. I'm criticizing it because A) it's overly simplistic, B) because your recommended "solution" is unwanted and unrealistic. If you don't like to have your opinions questioned, don't state them.

#93
HoonDing

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Really? Thinking back over the movies and books I can't think of anyone (heck Bond even got a lesbian in bed with him) but that might just be bad memory.

I can only think of the blonde that gets the hat treatment from the Chinese enforcer in Goldfinger, and the black-haired spy collegue in Thunderball who swallows a cyanide pill after being kidnapped by S.P.E.C.T.R.E.

#94
razgriz_1400

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SIE is one of my favorite characters in that she's confident, doesn't beat around the bush, and would definately be a great person to have as backup in a firefight. I'm running a stealth build, but I went with SIE/VCI for my allies in Moscow because I figure the perks gained for the SMGs help immensely with killing Brayko. Not to mention driving a Stryker through the front gates of a mob boss' mansion is a pretty epic start to a firefight. As for her being in her 40s... in Grumpier Old Men, Sophia Loren was pretty hot and she was pushing 60 when it was filmed. Just a bit of perspective. She and Sis are probably the two best female characters in my opinion, just wish Obsidian had more time to add more depth to Sis.

#95
Thorton_AP

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While originally Sis was supposed to be 16, her in-game age is around 20.


If you kill her, a news report back at your safehouse mentions the body of a teenage girl being found on the boat.

And her dossier says otherwise. Wanna continue the pointless argument?



Her dossier has an unspecified age.

Given that she is actively referred to as a child at places throughout the game, it seems pretty clear that the age was left ambiguous so as to not be an issue in places where killing children bans games.

Whoops. Old thread is old...

Edited by Thorton_AP, 03 July 2010 - 12:52 PM.


#96
Acleacius

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This opinion of SIE (being to old at 40) and Sis (being under underage at 18 to 23) only shows people have no idea what they are talking about, but have no problem showing their ignorance to the world in forums. :(

#97
Thorton_AP

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I think the idea of "underage" is more with the idea that Sis is probably under the age of 18.

Having said that, they aren't displaying their ignorance to the world, but rather their socialization and beliefs. This is different to ignorance.

Someone's understanding that "age of consent" is 16 somewhere (age of consent being a nebulous term at best), doesn't preclude them from feeling as though it is wrong for a 30 year old man, for example, to actively pursue a relationship with a 16 year old girl. Or vice versa for women seeking men.


I personally have no issue with someone like Sie (I'm 29 btw) or the other currently romanceable characters in the game, but feel as though an inclusion of Sis as a viable alternative does not make much sense for Michael Thorton, a presumably late 20s American male. I feel this way regardless as to whether or not Sis is actually under the age of 18, or just under 20. Given what little we saw of her background story, I'd find it hard to imagine it coming off as anything resembling a genuine relations (given that none of them in AP really are, which makes sense given the genre IMO), and not something dirty and creepy. I think that allowing player to have sex with Sis would have been in poor taste for Obsidian (an American company as well) given Sis' backstory.

I also believe that a fair bit of G22/Sis story is omitted because much of it was written with the original idea of Sis being a 16 year old. But that is just conjecture on my part.

Edited by Thorton_AP, 05 July 2010 - 11:34 AM.


#98
Scarvet

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I think that allowing player to have sex with Sis would have been in poor taste for Obsidian (an American company as well) given Sis' backstory.

I also believe that a fair bit of G22/Sis story is omitted because much of it was written with the original idea of Sis being a 16 year old. But that is just conjecture on my part.

Since when does that stop people being horny :ermm:

As we know, a lot of AP's content is cut in order for it to hit the store in before/early summer (and I would appreciate it to be release a month later for polish even after the push back from last year).

Any who, I also believe Mike and Sis's relationship is suppose to be between brother/father and almost lover; a big grey area which the player have to make judgment on :ermm:

#99
Calax

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I think that allowing player to have sex with Sis would have been in poor taste for Obsidian (an American company as well) given Sis' backstory.

I also believe that a fair bit of G22/Sis story is omitted because much of it was written with the original idea of Sis being a 16 year old. But that is just conjecture on my part.

Since when does that stop people being horny :lol:

As we know, a lot of AP's content is cut in order for it to hit the store in before/early summer (and I would appreciate it to be release a month later for polish even after the push back from last year).

Any who, I also believe Mike and Sis's relationship is suppose to be between brother/father and almost lover; a big grey area which the player have to make judgment on :lol:

I think if they pushed it back any further they'd have bigger troubles with the media and sales than releasing it as is.

#100
WorstUsernameEver

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You're all assuming that the game was being worked on during these months.
Reality is, we have evidence that the decision was purely a marketing one, and the game basically is the same that should have been published in october, excluding maybe a couple of tweaks.




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