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SIE is in her FOURTIES?!


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#41
Hassat Hunter

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Meh, I don't care for any romances, SIE or SIS. What's that facination people? There is much more to be had in your game!

Anyway, I do agree Sis got too low screentime. Locket!

#42
Manx

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Heck has nothing to do with it! At least officially!

Don't you know it's all part of a Masonic/Zionist/CIA conspiracy to enslave us under the New World Order of the subterranean lizard creatures??? Wake up, sheeple! :(

Meh, I don't care for any romances, SIE or SIS. What's that facination people? There is much more to be had in your game!

You mean like mowing down countless dudes with a machine gun, or headshotting them from the shadows with eleven different flavors of silenced firearms?

It's precisely these interpersonal relationships which separate RPGs from the average brain-dead shooter. Romance is a part of what it means to be human, and including it is a timeless tool to humanize a story and thus making it more engaging.

Edited by Manx, 06 June 2010 - 07:20 AM.


#43
Hassat Hunter

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You can have great(er) RPG-conversations without romance too.

Actually, they kind of cheapen the convo's (think Madison) when used.
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#44
Manx

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So? There is nothing precluding non-romance conversations in a game with romances.

And no, far from all romances "cheapen" conversations. That's a baseless generalization (protip: citing Madison is strictly your own opinion). In fact, they add an extra layer of depth and substance to social interaction.

Edited by Manx, 06 June 2010 - 08:07 AM.

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#45
GhostofAnakin

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Speaking of SIE, I've yet to even encounter her after 1 and a half play thrus.

Without going into great detail, when/how does she appear?


For general location
Spoiler

More specific
Spoiler


Weird ... she still doesn't show up. Do I have to piss off Malburg or something?

#46
Ausir

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She appeared to me before I even met Marburg.

#47
Hassat Hunter

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Did Moscow first and she showed up fine. Maybe you need to do a few more missions there first?

So? There is nothing precluding non-romance conversations in a game with romances.

True, as AP already proves us.
Still, I think Mina would have definitely profited from being non-romancable, as then they could add more dubiousness to her character than simple admiring of Mike.
I rather like intrigue than blind obiedience (ie. most romances in RPG's).

In fact, they add an extra layer of depth and substance to social interaction.

Give me one example. One.
The only profit I can think of is HK-47's "Kiss me in the cargo hold" mockery, and that really doesn't have anything to do with the romance itself at all.

AP's seem as cheap as BioWare's.

#48
Manx

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True, as AP already proves us.
Still, I think Mina would have definitely profited from being non-romancable, as then they could add more dubiousness to her character than simple admiring of Mike.
I rather like intrigue than blind obiedience (ie. most romances in RPG's).

Again, strictly your opinion. The romance angle made Mina more believable, rather than sticking her in the (frankly obvious) role of manipulative double-agent. It added a factor of uncertainty into her motivations, which would have been non-existent otherwise.

Give me one example. One.
The only profit I can think of is HK-47's "Kiss me in the cargo hold" mockery, and that really doesn't have anything to do with the romance itself at all.

AP's seem as cheap as BioWare's.

Oh, only every RPG since Planescape: Torment. No, seriously. Every character from Deionarra to Viconia to Mina Tang benefited from introducing romance into the character. More is simply better.

So please explain, in detail, how more character depth is detrimental to the story.

#49
gotthammer

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And that's just off the top of my head... Sex symbol is about the look, attitude, and style. Hell, Sex and the City, Desperate Housewives, and even that new one..Cougar Town? are all about women at that age being sex symbols of some sort.. and they've all been fairly wildly popular to the public at large.


Hehehe. Yeah. I agree. Tho' the only one I actually watch of the shows mentioned is 'Cougar Town'. :wacko:
(it's funny, but gets corny/cheesy at times)

I'd also throw in the names of Cate Blanchett, Kate Beckinsale and Claudia Black (ok, the last two aren't 40 yet...but close enough :lol: )

only 'complaint' about SIE:
I just wish they gave SIE an MG3/MG42, instead of the M60...

re: Romance
Dragon Age, for me anyway, wouldn't have been as poignant/memorable if it weren't for the romance side of things (the whole Morrigan thing and that choice + consequence near the end was awesome, IMHO). It's a case to case thing, I guess. If anything, I felt AP's romances were a bit 'underdeveloped' (as were the characters, to some extent...then again, I'm of the mind that the game was 'too short'. :lol: )

Edited by gotthammer, 06 June 2010 - 09:06 AM.


#50
Ulicus

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No we can't, that doesn't even make any sense, as the number 16 isn't used in that quote.

I didn't say she's twenty either, didn't keep you from pretending I did. :lol: Aaaand you call her "17 or under" later in your post anyway, so I was right. :lol:


Yeah a couple of people look at a girl they can't identify, tell the press she's a teenager (never mind that a late teen -17-19- is still a teen), which means they can't even pinpoint her age, but of course what they say is unerring truth. Because the press was never wrong in anything, no sir. And it was in fact Mike who shot Sung. :wacko:
Her dossier (you know, in-universe research) is again, putting her in her late teens-early twenties. Even if we go by the Australian legislation/vocabulary/whatever, if she's a 16-17 y/o teen, the dossier would be putting a big 3 year gap between the two age "guesses". That kinda doesn't make sense. :*
(Also, the game was made by US people, not Australians.)

To be fair, the newscast that refers to her as a "teenage girl" also mentions that the police suspect she was a "child prostitute".

Lines that like lead me to suspect Sis was originally intended to be in her mid-teens and was made older some time later in development.

#51
Manx

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To be fair, the newscast that refers to her as a "teenage girl" also mentions that the police suspect she was a "child prostitute".

Lines that like lead me to suspect Sis was originally intended to be in her mid-teens and was made older some time later in development.

Yeah. With the dossier suddenly referring to her as being in her "late teens to early twenties", I suspect the developers retconned her age. Possibly to make a planned (but ultimately canceled) romance with Sis more tolerable to North American audiences. It is pretty obvious that they had a lot more in store for her, after all.

#52
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Again, strictly your opinion. The romance angle made Mina more believable, rather than sticking her in the (frankly obvious) role of manipulative double-agent. It added a factor of uncertainty into her motivations, which would have been non-existent otherwise.

True that. I really think just chuncking out "romances" completely from RPG's would benefit them greatly. Sadly I am apparently in the minority of thinking as such.
Enough motivation to be found aside from "Mike's hot" though. Like stopping Halberg's plans, cleaning up Alpha Protocol etc.

So please explain, in detail, how more character depth is detrimental to the story.

Never said that. Of course more character depth is prefered. I just prefer it to NOT be cheesy corny romance. One of the reasons Tali was the best female member in ME1, not having to deal with the cheese.
You can have really deep characters without romance options, just look at pretty much the entire male AP crew.
Would I rather have Jaheira get revenge for Khalid or getting it on with the player. Preferably 1.

#53
Alpha

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believe me in the real world some ladies are gorgeus even being near 40's.

#54
Manx

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True that. I really think just chuncking out "romances" completely from RPG's would benefit them greatly. Sadly I am apparently in the minority of thinking as such.
Enough motivation to be found aside from "Mike's hot" though. Like stopping Halberg's plans, cleaning up Alpha Protocol etc.

Oh, you're in the minority alright. :wacko:

Removing romance from all RPGs altogether would absolutely cripple the human aspect, and every romanceable character so far would be end up a poorer character. There's a reason why pretty much every epic in literary history has involved romance. Mina only using Mike as a tool is exactly what I mean; sure, it would work from a strictly narrative perspective, but it'd be two-dimensional, impersonal, and ultimately unsatisfying.

Never said that. Of course more character depth is prefered. I just prefer it to NOT be cheesy corny romance. One of the reasons Tali was the best female member in ME1, not having to deal with the cheese.
You can have really deep characters without romance options, just look at pretty much the entire male AP crew.
Would I rather have Jaheira get revenge for Khalid or getting it on with the player. Preferably 1.

Again, "cheesiness" and "corniness" is strictly opinion. In fact, if it was one character from BG1 who got a better treatment in BG2, it was Jaheira - precisely because of the romance. It expanded upon her as an individual, and gave the player a personal connection to her story and personage. Exactly how memorable was she in BG1 compared to BG2? Not very. And yes, the very same thing applies to Tali.

Again with the either-or argument: romanceable and non-romanceable characters are not mutually exclusive. Romances simply add more of the human element to certain characters, and that's always a good thing.

Edited by Manx, 06 June 2010 - 10:14 AM.


#55
Calax

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Speaking of SIE, I've yet to even encounter her after 1 and a half play thrus.

Without going into great detail, when/how does she appear?


For general location
Spoiler

More specific
Spoiler


Weird ... she still doesn't show up. Do I have to piss off Malburg or something?

sorry I have to do this

HOLY CRAP IT'S GOA!

that said, she should show up literally first thing as soon as the trainyard mission begins. You sneak up and watch as a army of guys in tracksuits get mowed down then talk to her.

#56
Serrano

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Did anyone know that SIE is voiced by Mary Elizabeth McGlynn (also in her 40's), the woman who does the vocals for the Silent Hill soundtracks? I was really impressed after reading her portfolio, she's done everything from writing to directing.

#57
Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien

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Did anyone know that SIE is voiced by Mary Elizabeth McGlynn (also in her 40's), the woman who does the vocals for the Silent Hill soundtracks? I was really impressed after reading her portfolio, she's done everything from writing to directing.

And also the US/English VA of Motoko Kusanagi from 'Ghost In The Shell'

#58
Calax

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so...

Posted Image
and
Posted Image
hate each other... gotcha

#59
Darque

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Did anyone know that SIE is voiced by Mary Elizabeth McGlynn (also in her 40's), the woman who does the vocals for the Silent Hill soundtracks? I was really impressed after reading her portfolio, she's done everything from writing to directing.

And also the US/English VA of Motoko Kusanagi from 'Ghost In The Shell'


Whoa :)

Cool :)

#60
Vahkn

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If anyone thinks that women can't be hot over 40 then you have a pleasant surprise coming lol. They're typically way more confident and less inhibited by that point.

Personally I have bigger problems with Sis. Every game I say to myself I wont execute her immediately this time... and every time I can't help myself. The whole angry teenager look is just too annoying. Plus, Albatros is kind of creepy and it's a reliable way to piss him off.




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