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The Conspiracy Against Alpha Protocol


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#221
naarkh

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Hmm let's see.

Vampire The Masquerade : The Bloodlines was bugged upto sky too.(Crashing at leopold's place, glitches&bugs, not could be able to start game since it's black screen but sound playing... So many really) But it was first ever game that used famous Source engine(Even released or announced to be released before Half Life 2) so people bought it. It was also second in a series(Redemption was first) that some people liked and it was based on White Wolf setting which has "not so little amount" of fans. Also don't forget "Vampire" lovers who had no idea about previous games or White Wolf :) So of course it worked.(Troika bankrupted which is sad but VTM:B still has its own player base who're working on fixes after 6 years. So i can say it worked) (Overall gamestats score is 8.3)

KOTOR 2. It wasn't bugged as much as VTM:B to be fair but when you were close to endgame you'd realise there were some missing content. Atmosphere, prestige classes, well designed NPC's, being able to effect NPC's standing towards to you were all fine but ending was all rushed up.(LA's fault as far as i know but that's not our subject:) ) But again it worked well. Because it was a sequel to famous, legendary KOTOR and it was based on Star Wars setting after all.(Fans were trying to add missing content after years, no idea if they added or not yet. But it worked)(Overall gamestats score is 8.6)

Fallout 3. It was bugged, yes. Unpolished, game breaking bugs, blue screens of death, alt-tab caused crash... But RPG fans waited for it since Fallout 2(1999) and loved all games.(Better not to forget Oblivion which was only overrated in my opinion but received good reviews as an advert to Bethesda and their Fallout 3) Also by changing isometric style to FPS Bethesda gained massive fanbase while trying not to lose Fallout fanbase.(At least they said so.) Even with all the bugs it worked very well. It received good reviews but old fans(fans of FO and/or FO2) flamed Bethesda all over the internet while new fans tried to defend their game.(Advert in a good or bad way... Both works:) ) In the meantime Bethesda fixed the game, modders did their job so tada! We had a new classic.(Overall gamestats score is 9.0)

GTA 4. It was waited since San Andreas and Rockstar was(still is) good at advertising. It probably was good at consoles while... PC version was the most un-optimised game i've ever seen.(And no Crysis doesn't count since it was revolutionary about engine, technology etc. so it could be accepted. But GTA 4 was... just un-optimised console port) But again due to previous games' success and GTA's sandbox system(Follow the quest or type cheats and blow up some stuff or just drive around or...) it worked(Overall gamestats score is 8.1)

Alpha Protocol's gamestats score is 6.3. Which i can say it's under "mediocre" according to this score.(7-8 is good, 8< is classic... At least that's my thoughts)

Let me try to answer "why? why 6.3/10?"

1) Because people thought it should be another a) Splinter Cell(Spy game) b)Mass Effect 1 or 2(RPG shooter)

Habits you know? If you play Fifa all day you'd expect Pro Evolution Soccer to become a Fifa clone. No cookies for them from me but i can understand to expect same old thing in this "speeded up" world which everything is just a copy of another. (I don't agree to this but opinions of people anyway)

Also I have a friend who plays Hitman series like a shooter which is totally against game's design. But he thinks Hitman sucks since Call Of Duty has better shooting mechanics.(Yeah, he's Captain Obvious) He also couldn't be able to finish MGS I because of the need to hide. (He'd probably give Alpha Protocol 5-6 because of not only not trying to understand game's design but also having it his way)

2) Lack of character creation, gender selection

I completely agree to this. A change in romances or dialogues or even looks, generally make people play over over again(just like modding)

3) Hard gameplay

Both yes and no to this. Because it has a learning curve which you need to invest your time and practise. If you realise it, your opinion will get better but if you're a casual gamer who wants to take everything on a silver plate you won't stand learning stuff.

A person who voted 2/10 couldn't be able to pass the tutorial(Try Operation Flashpoint I, you'll love me), another guy from a video review(Probably an editor who gets money for doing "reviews") was telling how underpowered pistols are... Oh yeah!? I mean, really? :p

I can agree to "mouse lag" in hacking system but all other stuff depends on practising.(And i'm sure mouse issue will be fixed)

4) Bugs

Every single game has it.(Read upside) So it won't really count.

But of course polishing before release is always good :)

5) Poor AI

Just let me tell you what Bioware fixed in their second patch of ME 2 : Fixed an issue where enemies sometimes 'pop-up' onto cover after taking damage.(Which still happens to me and yes it breaks whole mood/RP or game experience to see that kind of stuff)

Or remember in KOTOR series team members loved to walk over a mine.

And of course if you invest in stealth you can't be seen easily... It's not about AI :p

6) Balance

Come on, it's not a MMO who cares about balance?

Oh actually check this out. It's been 5 years and they're nerfing/boosting up abilities in an online game which has a fan army : http://www.worldofwa...com/patchnotes/

So isn't it normal to have balance issues?(Remember force lightning in KOTOR or think about mages in Dragon Age)

7) Not a sequel or not using a pre-designed setting

Well let me summarise KOTOR series, ME series and Dragon Age to get the "idea" (Massive spoilers about these ahead)

Spoiler


And check their settings... Star Wars(You can sell people blank CD's by this franchise), medieval typical elf/dwarf crap(It sells since the beginning of time) and a new sci-fi one(Not only sci-fi sells but also Bioware somehow convinced people it's totally "new")

Anyway for me Alpha Protocol deserves something around 7.5-8/10 because of lack of character creation and lack of free roaming/chatting over here and there but this 1-2 points(6.3-7.5 or 6.3-8) makes game go up from "mediocre" to "good", which is fair enough for any game.

Not only i appreciate real time setting(No mutants allowed) in a RPG but also it's something fresh(more fresh at least) and NPC's and their stances... I missed that much characteriestic NPC's since Atton from KOTOR 2(ME 2 has some good NPC's too, to be fair)

After playing Alpha Protocol(finished 2 times, working on third) i'm really worried about the gems that i'm missing because of these so-called "reviewers"

PS: I think i got an achivement of longest post in any forums :o

Edited by naarkh, 23 June 2010 - 04:47 AM.


#222
epektasis

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I also was surprised that ME 1 got so much good reviews since it's first half was totally a rip-off of KOTOR 1... People seem to forget about previous game when new one comes out.

Only in ME2 they tried to break this meaningless circle.(But they forgot story and RP part this time, ah well)


(Sorry for my poor english)

I agree with you. Only one thing (which I have already said in another post): you forgot to say that Mass Effect 2 story is a shameless plagiarism of a recent and famous "Sci-Fi Opera".
For me this is important, but no reviewer has said a word about this plagiarism.
Why do you think this plagiarism is being ignored?

#223
naarkh

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I also was surprised that ME 1 got so much good reviews since it's first half was totally a rip-off of KOTOR 1... People seem to forget about previous game when new one comes out.

Only in ME2 they tried to break this meaningless circle.(But they forgot story and RP part this time, ah well)


(Sorry for my poor english)

I agree with you. Only one thing (which I have already said in another post): you forgot to say that Mass Effect 2 story is a shameless plagiarism of a recent and famous "Sci-Fi Opera".
For me this is important, but no reviewer has said a word about this plagiarism.
Why do you think this plagiarism is being ignored?


Hehe i'm not a big fan of sci-fi except Star Wars and i don't really watch any recent movies, no matter how good or praised they are(Still watching good old 70's) (But if you can PM me about the movie or tv-series that you mentioned i'll check it out)

Even though i don't follow mainstream movies i'm sure some reviewers do but since we haven't heard about how ME I is heavily "inspired" from KOTOR I, i'm not so surprised not to hear that.

It might be about the change in gamer profile. People respect looks and graphics not the ideas or originality.(You can check how WoW stole ideas from other games like UO/SWG etc. You can also feel free to browse any MMO forums to see "Introduce x from WoW" titles. People always after same thing not originality) "Make me feel like hero in easiest/fastest way! I don't care about how deep/original the story or the game is!" which i think will be failure of SWTOR(Not business wise but as design) and even probably gaming industry in long term but that's another subject :p )

Just thoughts...

Edited by naarkh, 23 June 2010 - 07:11 AM.


#224
epektasis

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naarkh'
But if you can PM me about the movie or tv-series that you mentioned i'll check it out



Ok I have sent you a private message.

#225
Hassat Hunter

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Actually, BioWare used that plot way before KOTOR1.

#226
Zoraptor

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Yeah, the BioWare Story Construction Template was firmly established with Neverwinter Nights, and the companion archetypes (Anoarth Skyden/ Korgarous Wrexwind, ohohoho) even earlier than that.

#227
naarkh

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naarkh'
But if you can PM me about the movie or tv-series that you mentioned i'll check it out



Ok I have sent you a private message.


Got it mate thank you.

Actually, BioWare used that plot way before KOTOR1.


Is that so? I wasn't into RPG's much until first KOTOR(except Fallout's) so excuse me if my post was wrong or let's say incomplete.

Anyway then it is worse :lol:

Still nothing explains why Bioware isn't accused of using "same **** different day" plots while AP, a more unique game in RPG genre takes whole flame.

Not that AP is best game ever but still i don't think it deserves that much flame even with all its flaws.

#228
Volourn

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" a more unique game in RPG genre takes whole flame. "

Quality aside, AP is not unique in any way.


"you forgot to say that Mass Effect 2 story is a shameless plagiarism of a recent and famous "Sci-Fi Opera". "

if you referring to what i think you are referring to, you couldn't be way off. First, the 'sci fi opera' isn't even recent but like 3 decades old. Secondly, ME series heavily borrows (or if you want to be harsh 'rips off') many sources not just one.

Edited by Volourn, 24 June 2010 - 10:59 AM.


#229
newc0253

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do some people think there was a conspiracy against AP?

really?

you mean, like someone snuck into the building and gave it such a crappy interface?

seems to me that it was more like self-sabotage by Obsidian - a desperate cry for help or, at least, more resources to fix the game.

i enjoyed AP and i would play a sequel. But AP also richly deserved the kicking it got for its many flaws. few of which, i should hasten to add, were to do with story.

but, and perhaps i've been spoiled recently, but AP was the shoddiest game i've played in a long while, and that includes several of those indie games that run off your browser.

the graphics? actually, i thought these looked pretty good overall. a little crude in places and certainly not state of the art, but it all looked pretty enough on my rig.

the gameplay? well, as i'm sure many have already said, it plays more like a commando game than a spy game. but it was generally fun, except when some lazy design decision or glitch meant that it wasn't, e.g. like a boss fight with endless waves of henchmen that only becomes possible to beat because the boss gets stuck in the floor or something.

i came to respect the design decision behind the checkpoint system, making it exceedingly difficult to go back and replay a key moment. that might be fine if the game worked. but it often didn't. i like that the game has a very high replay value, but my experience with its bugs makes me not want to hurry back any time soon.

the little timer on speeches? nice idea in principle but often silly in execution. me? i normally wait until the other person has finished talking before i decide what to reply. but not possible in this game apparently. it kind of breaks your story-driven, choice-driven RPG if i have to guess at what my response is to something i haven't even fully heard yet.

but the GUI? broken, broken, broken. for a game to be delayed for so long and that basic mechanic to remain unpolished reaks of a half-assed approach.

which is a real shame, because - had this game been more polished - it could have been a genuine phenomenon rather than an object of ridicule.

#230
qaz123

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well about the "conspiracy" it seems that worked because in some places the game is getting sold for $39.99, only for the bad press that i received and the unfair criticism about the game.


Not out of the ordinary. I see most releases on sale for $39.99-$49.99 these days. Blur was just on sale for $39.99, too, and that's an Activision joint. Same with Split/Second, etc. New releases are on sale very early these days. I take advantage of these deals. Not to mention, I picked up Alpha Protocol for $44.99 from K-Mart when it released.


I don't think it is a sale. I think it's an official price drop to $39.99 at least in NA. Either way, I'm definitely picking this up. Price Drop

#231
Libertarian

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Played the 360 version and it was a pleasant experience. I don't get all the crybaby BS, tbh.

#232
Libertarian

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well about the "conspiracy" it seems that worked because in some places the game is getting sold for $39.99, only for the bad press that i received and the unfair criticism about the game.


Not out of the ordinary. I see most releases on sale for $39.99-$49.99 these days. Blur was just on sale for $39.99, too, and that's an Activision joint. Same with Split/Second, etc. New releases are on sale very early these days. I take advantage of these deals. Not to mention, I picked up Alpha Protocol for $44.99 from K-Mart when it released.


I don't think it is a sale. I think it's an official price drop to $39.99 at least in NA. Either way, I'm definitely picking this up. Price Drop


Considering K-Mart just had Mass Effect 2 for $19.99, Gamefly just had BioShock 2 for $16.99 and Bayonetta for $14.99, etc, I don't find it surprising. Many high rated titles that released this calendar year are already incredibly cheap. Games don't keep their value like they used to. Prices drop within mere months for even high rated titles.

#233
MysterD

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well about the "conspiracy" it seems that worked because in some places the game is getting sold for $39.99, only for the bad press that i received and the unfair criticism about the game.


Not out of the ordinary. I see most releases on sale for $39.99-$49.99 these days. Blur was just on sale for $39.99, too, and that's an Activision joint. Same with Split/Second, etc. New releases are on sale very early these days. I take advantage of these deals. Not to mention, I picked up Alpha Protocol for $44.99 from K-Mart when it released.


I don't think it is a sale. I think it's an official price drop to $39.99 at least in NA. Either way, I'm definitely picking this up. Price Drop


Considering K-Mart just had Mass Effect 2 for $19.99, Gamefly just had BioShock 2 for $16.99 and Bayonetta for $14.99, etc, I don't find it surprising. Many high rated titles that released this calendar year are already incredibly cheap. Games don't keep their value like they used to. Prices drop within mere months for even high rated titles.


Plus, games w/ DLC released later that you have to pay for might also drive the cost of the original game down, too...

#234
Scarvet

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I would just say the game critics are just being unprofessional about the multi-national collaboration. If AP is release by EA/Beth/2k it would have a much better score.

But hey, sales speak for themselves.




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