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The New Classics


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#21
Wrath of Dagon

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[Argh! Me and Braid, we go way back. I hate it with a fiery passion because of the pretentious

Spoiler
story. I can appreciate the gameplay, but the hate still burns with the fire of a thousand suns.

To me the story was a minor bonus (and more interesting if the hidden meanings are explained), the game can be played for the puzzles and artwork alone. Also the paintings you were assembling are kind of interesting, I wish I could figure out how they fit into the story.

If we're talking strategy, I nominate Combat Mission : Shock Force, the most realistic tactical wargame available, check it out.

BG&E, I agree is a great game, but I feel it gets too much praise. It's like a combination of Thief 3 and Oddworld: Munch's Odyssey, but both of those games are much deeper and more deserving of praise.

#22
Purkake

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I was not actually nominating anything, it was more of a pessimistic prediction based on where the mainstream is going.

Halo as in the series. or Halo 3 if you want to be nitpicky.

#23
Wrath of Dagon

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The first Halo was definitely a classic, the other games in the series an attempt to cash in by hacks after all the creative people left the developer.

#24
Purkake

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To me the story was a minor bonus (and more interesting if the hidden meanings are explained), the game can be played for the puzzles and artwork alone. Also the paintings you were assembling are kind of interesting, I wish I could figure out how they fit into the story.


Everything would have been awesome, but I felt that the developer really needed to one-up me in the end and pull a twist worthy of M. Night Shyamalan himself.

It was totally unnecessary, but apparently the game wasn't artsy enough. Having the story be
Spoiler
as the ending suggested, would have been perfect, but Mr. Blow just had to mess it all up.

The first Halo was definitely a classic, the other games in the series an attempt to cash in by hacks after all the creative people left the developer.


That won't stop them from being seen as classics by the mainstream. It's the most played game on Live, to this day.

Edited by Purkake, 01 September 2009 - 12:31 PM.


#25
entrerix

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layed for the puzzles and artwork alone. Also the paintings you were assembling are kind of interesting, I wish I could figure out how they fit into the story.

If we're talking strategy, I nominate Combat Mission : Shock Force, the most realistic tactical wargame available, check it out.

BG&E, I agree is a great game, but I feel it gets too much praise. It's like a combination of Thief 3 and Oddworld: Munch's Odyssey, but both of those games are much deeper and more deserving of praise.



you I think, did not understand the point of this thread. you nominated a game that virtually no has heard of, and never will! then you knocked BG&E saying that because thief 3 is deeper BG&E won't be considered a classic 10 years from now?

i'm just being a little jerk though, so pay me no mind if you dont want to :lol:

Edited by entrerix, 01 September 2009 - 12:30 PM.


#26
RPGmasterBoo

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I don't think enough time has passed on either Bioshock or The WItcher that we can yet know how they stand in the pantheon of gaming.


At this point, to me, neither one qualifies as a classic. But that could change in a few years.


I said, cult classic, not general classic. The Witcher has too specific an appeal, and its audience is too small to carry weight in a fight against trash like Halo, Gears of War etc.

Bioshock will probably gain the title of mainstream classic, but only because its the very highest point of very low times, so to speak.

I would also nominate Shadow of the Colossus.

Edited by RPGmasterBoo, 01 September 2009 - 12:31 PM.


#27
entrerix

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i agree with everything boo just said

#28
cronicler

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Portal is the only title I can call a classic without second thoughts. In my definition classics are those games that despite their flaws and missing parts ( portal is too damn short dammit! I need 20 more hours of it :p) they manage to give you something much much bigger than the sum of all its parts.
(If it is eligible add BG&E to the list)
Edit: Riddick. You have to play it to understand
Edit 2: WoW. Say what you want to say and despise it if you want to. It is the blood and ichor bleeding edge in MMO gaming. Sure it takes them 2 years to tie their shoes after it unlaces but except for "public quest" and "open battleground" aspects from WaR, it is the pinnacle and it is still evolving to include better gimmicks and suprisingly, it is inserting more and more story into the "game".

There are however quite a few games that are "just not classic" for my tastes.
-Company of Heroes and Dawn of War 2 are the prime runners in this category. I loved the game but only if they had some editors...
-Half Life 2 and episodes. Top tier games but somehow they always felt a bit not enough
-German Games. I hate you f********* Deepsilver. There are a lot of nice and different (Read: not much dumbed down) games coming from german developers but it takes ages to see them in English. (Yes, my German sucks. I can't catch half the spoken content without concentrating hard and it is very iritating :lol:)


TBC...

#29
RPGmasterBoo

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What will be looked at as classics in 5-10 years by the mainstream gaming community? Halo, Gears of War, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, Mass Effect(with sequels), Bioshock and a bunch of weird Japanese games that only the Sony fanboys care about(MGS4, FFXIII+).


The gist of the problem. I see it as a victory of the hype machine and advertising over any sort of general consensus of what makes a game great today. Also the broadening spectrum of gamers has set mediocrity and susceptability to style over substance as a desirable trait in a gamer. While this may sound like elitist wankery I think there is plenty of truth in it.

Even if you pointed out the lameness and unoriginality of most of those titles, it would serve no purpose as their status is already set.

#30
Wrath of Dagon

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layed for the puzzles and artwork alone. Also the paintings you were assembling are kind of interesting, I wish I could figure out how they fit into the story.

If we're talking strategy, I nominate Combat Mission : Shock Force, the most realistic tactical wargame available, check it out.

BG&E, I agree is a great game, but I feel it gets too much praise. It's like a combination of Thief 3 and Oddworld: Munch's Odyssey, but both of those games are much deeper and more deserving of praise.



you I think, did not understand the point of this thread. you nominated a game that virtually no has heard of, and never will! then you knocked BG&E saying that because thief 3 is deeper BG&E won't be considered a classic 10 years from now?

i'm just being a little jerk though, so pay me no mind if you dont want to :lol:

Well, yeah, but it's too boring to think about what the unwashed masses will consider to be classics. Clearly far more important is what games I consider classics. Also I don't object to BG&E being a classic, I agree, I just commented that it gets more praise than actually warranted.

#31
RPGmasterBoo

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Edit: Riddick. You have to play it to understand


Yes. Escape from butcher Bay is a slice of perfection, even with the weird double boss battle/ending.

#32
Slowtrain

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I don't think enough time has passed on either Bioshock or The WItcher that we can yet know how they stand in the pantheon of gaming.


At this point, to me, neither one qualifies as a classic. But that could change in a few years.


I said, cult classic, not general classic. The Witcher has too specific an appeal, and its audience is too small to carry weight in a fight against trash like Halo, Gears of War etc.

Bioshock will probably gain the title of mainstream classic, but only because its the very highest point of very low times, so to speak.

I would also nominate Shadow of the Colossus.



Otoh, some classic games like System SHock never had mass appeal. Yet, over the years, they continued to endure and gained the respect and admiration of many.


I don't think mass appeal is neccessary or even required for a game to be a classic. Nor does a game with mass appeal have less chance to be a classic.


That's why it takes a while to really evaluate the lasting impact of a game. ALl the dust needs to settle out.

#33
Purkake

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What will be looked at as classics in 5-10 years by the mainstream gaming community? Halo, Gears of War, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, Mass Effect(with sequels), Bioshock and a bunch of weird Japanese games that only the Sony fanboys care about(MGS4, FFXIII+).


The gist of the problem. I see it as a victory of the hype machine and advertising over any sort of general consensus of what makes a game great today. Also the broadening spectrum of gamers has set mediocrity and susceptability to style over substance as a desirable trait in a gamer. While this may sound like elitist wankery I think there is plenty of truth in it.

Even if you pointed out the lameness and unoriginality of most of those titles, it would serve no purpose as their status is already set.


Whether it's true or not that's (apparently) the point of this thread.

Also WoW is more than a classic, it pretty much single-handedly defined the MMO as it stands and achieved both critical and popular acclaim. Newer MMOs are called post-WoW for a reason.

Edited by Purkake, 01 September 2009 - 12:44 PM.


#34
Slowtrain

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WoW.



WoW was one my one potential nominee that I considered, even though I don't think too highly of it personally. It's had to great an impact on gaming really, it seems, to not be a classic.

Still, I think it needs to be over for a few years before we can really say.

#35
cronicler

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/Shrug. Being a Classic does not mean being perfect. (at least for me) A Classic game is one of those rare games that despite all of its flaws, drawbacks and idiot choices; manages to become something much more than it's parts. For example, as a game Portal has a lot of weak points, short, linear, more than a few of design flaws in the puzzles and so on. So what? The game still delivers a massive puch within it's 6 or 8 hours and that is it. You are left bleeding on the ground, craving for more...

I felt the same thing with BG&E and Riddick. Sure forced boss battles in both games sucked but so what? I still wanted more and I had this sad feeling seeing the game end..

#36
Slowtrain

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the hype machine



The nice thing is that every game's hype machine (or lack thereof) runs out after a few years. Once nobody cares any more, once there's no more money to be made, no more axes to grind, no more mags to sell, games can be seen more clearly for what they really brought to the table ( or didn't bring).

#37
RPGmasterBoo

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WoW has already written history so to speak, but the passable nature of MMO's (works as long as servers are running and new content coming) is what I think prevents them from being classics.

They are not "full" products and exist only as a collective > when the collective goes, the game goes, whereas a classic from the Commodore is still as viable as any classic, whether it is now or a decade into the future.

#38
cronicler

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Yes and No Boo, As it stands now, Blizz MMO team are building "on" the foundations of WoW. Sure their engine and IP will change but we will surely be seeing most of the concepts from WoW in future games.

I guess that defines a Classic in MMO Genre. UO was a classic, Everquest wasn't classic as it only gave 3rd dimension and collecting to the player but after EQ only Wow managed to become one. (Aion? no idea but it seems to much like a wow clone atm. Sure a better designed, prettier and more tidy but still a clone. Disclaimer: Haven't experienced it first hand yet)

Edit: I think we can add Old SWG and Eve to the list and thats it.

Edited by cronicler, 01 September 2009 - 12:57 PM.


#39
Purkake

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/Shrug. Being a Classic does not mean being perfect. (at least for me) A Classic game is one of those rare games that despite all of its flaws, drawbacks and idiot choices; manages to become something much more than it's parts. For example, as a game Portal has a lot of weak points, short, linear, more than a few of design flaws in the puzzles and so on. So what? The game still delivers a massive puch within it's 6 or 8 hours and that is it. You are left bleeding on the ground, craving for more...

I felt the same thing with BG&E and Riddick. Sure forced boss battles in both games sucked but so what? I still wanted more and I had this sad feeling seeing the game end..


A linear game being linear is not a weak point. If the game was meant to be that way, it's neither a plus or a minus. Is Super Mario Bros bad because you only go from left to right? I think it was perfect in size, it changed things up and didn't make you do the same thing for too long. Non-linear games are not inherently superior.

the hype machine

The nice thing is that every game's hype machine (or lack thereof) runs out after a few years. Once nobody cares any more, once there's no more money to be made, no more axes to grind, no more mags to sell, games can be seen more clearly for what they really brought to the table ( or didn't bring).


If you have only played ME and no earlier Bioware or BIS games, you won't have any other points of reference and ME will remain the awesomest WRPG ever in your mind.

Edited by Purkake, 01 September 2009 - 12:57 PM.


#40
Slowtrain

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SO I guess WoW is all we have so far.

With some possibility for Bioshock and Halo.

I'm surpirsed there isn't more Mass Effect love.




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