7 replies to this topic

[Walsingham]

I've been reading the excellent Eisenhorn trilogy, by Dan Abnett, and it just occurred to me that in many ways the experience of a daemon in our universe would be like Neo, bending or breaking the rules due to their ability to cohere in additional dimensions.

Have I gone mad?

[Blackeye13]

Yes. But the difference between Neo and 40k demons is he doesn't have to be summoned.

[Walsingham]

Yes. But the difference between Neo and 40k demons is he doesn't have to be summoned.

Hmm. But both use avatars, yes?

[Gorth]

Slaanesh demons are generally more attractive than anything that Neo can come up with.

One is a manifestation of emotion given sentience, the other is truly an avatar in the common use of the term

[Calax]

Daemons powers (as I understand it) are basically the ability to manipulate the warp at and force it into real space at will. So yes, it is kinda like Neo except that the rules are defined by just how firmly rooted something is in the warp. From reading a bit on Relicnews and wikipedia and other sources, a Daemon is a psycher taken to the next level. Unsanctioned/untied psychers (those that don't have a godlike patron basically) manipulate their power through sheer force of will (to summon lightening for example they literally fashion the warp into the shape of a lightning bolt and then force it into the material realm), while those that are sanctioned or have a patron generally have the use of the patron to manipulate the bolt and they just kinda throw it.

The scariest thing I think for anyone to do in 40k would be take on a daemon in the eye of terror (given the entire area is in the immaterium and thus MUCH easier to manipulate the environment). inside the Warp it's like neo with no rules.

[Gorth]

Daemons powers (as I understand it) are basically the ability to manipulate the warp at and force it into real space at will. So yes, it is kinda like Neo except that the rules are defined by just how firmly rooted something is in the warp. From reading a bit on Relicnews and wikipedia and other sources, a Daemon is a psycher taken to the next level. Unsanctioned/untied psychers (those that don't have a godlike patron basically) manipulate their power through sheer force of will (to summon lightening for example they literally fashion the warp into the shape of a lightning bolt and then force it into the material realm), while those that are sanctioned or have a patron generally have the use of the patron to manipulate the bolt and they just kinda throw it.

The scariest thing I think for anyone to do in 40k would be take on a daemon in the eye of terror (given the entire area is in the immaterium and thus MUCH easier to manipulate the environment). inside the Warp it's like neo with no rules.

Is that how Relic implemented it?

The WH40K daemons are a bit different from that description

In the setting, you have the Universe and the "Empyrean" (warp space). Warp space is an alternate reality where thoughts and emotions from the physical universe is given form and shape. Think "Planescape"

During an ancient conflict between the Necrons, lead by their C'Tan masters and a race now only known as "The Old Ones" the empyrean was cast into such turmoil, filled with such intensity that the thoughts of hatred, despair and deceit coalesced into sentient beings, becoming the original three "Chaos Gods", Khorne, Nugle and Tzeentch. When the warp disturbances threatened to destroy the physical universe, the Necrons simply withdrew and went into hibernation, awaiting a time when the universe would be more calm. Silly Eldar, being one of the creations of the Old Ones (like most other organic life in the universe) went ahead and created a fourth one all by them selves. Way to go pointy earted suckers.

Daemons are "splinters" of those chaos gods, created by them, sometimes destroyed (absorbed) again by them.

The way they manifest themselves in the physcial universe is among other things through possession of people with psychic ability (the ability to access the empyrean) yet too weak to defend themselves, through man made warp portals, through summoning rituals (usually requires a host body) and through events of cataclysmic nature. I.e. very strong emotions, like massacres, orgies, whatever, as long as it creates a rift in reality.

Sanctioned psychers are those that have been tested by the Inquisition and found strong enough of mind to not succumb to daemonic possession. Some, like Astropaths, goes through the ritual of "soul bonding" where they on a miniscule level unite part of their soul with the Emperor himself, protecting them against unwanted attention. Thousands of those that are found wanting are sacrificed daily to the emperor, to sustain him.

Lots of fluff available about the creation and the purpose of the emperor too from the old books.

[Walsingham]

We were discussing this at length over Christmas (as you do). The notion of daemons is - from one argument - not much more than could be expected from any entity existing in more dimensions than our own. It's 'logic', it's cohesion would all violate the logic and principles of our world. Imagine a two dimensional entity as the surface layer on a bowl of water. You dip your fingers into it, and move them around. This would appear entirely orderly to you, but utterly chaotic to the two dimensional being, because we exist in four dimensions. I suggest that this is analogous to how we would interact with something like a daemon which existed in more dimensions.

My understanding of the 40k canon, is that almost all sentient life projects energy into extra dimensions, collectively termed the warp. Psychics project a great deal of warp energy and in turn are closer meshed with the warp. This does not do them any favours to a non-heretical perspective. Daemons are not entities in a way that we would understand, although they can project an intelligible four dimensional aspect of themselves.

[Calax]

My understanding of the 40k canon, is that almost all sentient life projects energy into extra dimensions, collectively termed the warp. Psychics project a great deal of warp energy and in turn are closer meshed with the warp. This does not do them any favours to a non-heretical perspective. Daemons are not entities in a way that we would understand, although they can project an intelligible four dimensional aspect of themselves.

Most life creates and manipulates the warp to a degree. However in Humans there are blanks and pariahs, while effect wise they are the same thing (warp can't work on them) the Pariahs carry a gene that was put into the human genome by the C'tan. Orks also are very difficult to posses because of the way that their power works. If an ork were to get possesed it's most likely that he would be killed for being Unorky. And Orks also have a sort of shield that they put up when they go into a WAAAGH! alone an ork couldn't do much with the warp, but when in a WAAAGH! the Orks combined abilities allow them to manipulate the world (which is why "Red unz go fasta!" works).

The Tau have so little connection to the warp they can't really be tainted by chaos. In fact they can't even use warp drives to enter the immaterium.

any other questions:http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=51651 enjoy.