I beaten KotOR 1 under 35 hours my first time through. It took me 27 hours on my first time through KotOR 2.

Lies.

you know..i was really thinking about how the third game would unfold if it ever came out and i was hoping that Obsidian would take on kotor 3 and really have some time to develop it.It's been announced here at that "Obsidian's Third Game" thread that Obsidian is working on a third project that doesn't have the Bioware liscence (they didnt mention anything about a LA liscence) and also that the project is NOT a sequel.....umm...let me try and stay calm...that not only rules out kotor 3...but its pretty safe to say Bioware is too busy with a possible first person shooter, maybe Jade Empire 2 and that DA game for the PC.. and it seems LA laid off the development team responsible for starting the production of KOTOR 3...i mean am i the only one who is kind of upset the game might not even be announced this year at E3? I don't wanna pick a fight or anything, just adding this to the table...

I'm just going to reiterate what I posted earlier...

I would like to see the forced classes (eg. Jedi Guardian, Jedi Sentinel, Jedi Consular) go out the window. I want there to be an implimentation of the orginal (movie) StarWars classes (eg. Jedi Padawan, Jedi Knight, Jedi Master.)

I fell that K3 should start with a new character who has begun his training as a Jedi Padawan in the revived Jedi Order on Coruscant.

The revived Jedi Order should have the new Jedi High Council consist of Bastila, Mical, Briana, and possibly Jolee being four of the twelve Jedi Master. Briana would be the new Jedi Historian (assuming Atris's role) very much like Yaddle in Episode I's High Council and Jocasta Nu before her. I would also love to see a Rakatan Jedi Master on this new Council. I mean, when you left them in K1 they were experimenting with reintroducing midi-chlorians back into their DNA. They also want to make peace with the galaxy for the crimes of their ancestors. What bettrer way to pay the galaxy back then by becoming a Jedi.

I would like for the game to start with you being a level 1 Jedi Padawan. Possibly have a member of the Council as your master. Maybe not. Anyway, when you reach level 15 you automatically become a Jedi Knight with new feats, skills, and force powers open to you; and you no longer have your master in your party (if he/she is in your party anyway) because there is no more use for him/her. Also, at level15 you could also select your very own Jedi Padawan (giving you a side-quest depending on their gender.) Once your character reaches level30 (your Padawan reaching level15, you having successfully trained him/her to Knighthood) you become a Jedi Master; with the most advanced feats, skills, and force powers open to you. This would be a perfect way to get rid of the forced classes that do not even exist in the movies. For example, Barris Ofee was a Padawan. When she reached Knighthood, sure she took on the position of a Jedi Healer, but she is still a Jedi Knight (plain and simple) reguardless. And had she lived to train a Padawan who succeeded in his/her trials and became a Knight, then she would have likewise been ordained a Jedi Master. Simple as that.

Just take away the forced classes and turn their (until now) restricted feats and make them universal. Sure you wont be able to get them all but atleast you will be able to get the better feats of all classes and not be stuck with a Jedi Master who can't even hold his lightsaber straight, or a Jedi Weapon Master who can't stun a frog much less shock a Sith like in K2. It's ridiculous that the character should be forced into such cirumstances when in "real" Star Wars there are no restrictions other than the Jedi's own strength with the force or weakness of the mind. And even these can be changed with discipline.

Anyway, I've rambled enough. I think I might have gotten my point across but if anyone has any questions feel free to PM me or post a message here.

PS: Going back to the Atris, Briana, Jocasta Nu, thingy about the Jedi Historian...

Does anyone other than myself see a resemblence in the robes of Atris, and then the robes of Jocasta Nu? Is it possible that these robes may be the traditional garment handed down, or stylized, from one Historian to the next? With thousands of years passed resulting in the not-so-white Atris looking robes on Jocasta Nu in Episode II. They both seem to "bear the symbols of the Ansata, indicating devotion to knowledge and learning."

Here's a link if you wanna check...Star Wars Databanks: Jocasta Nu - Expanded Universe

I would like to see the movie style ranks (Padawan, Knight, Master) as well. There should be certain skills that you would have that would determine if you were more of a saber fighter, or force user, but not locked in from the start. They should be skill boxes you have to choose as you level up.

I like your idea of starting off as a Padawan . You should be seperated from your master early on. He gives you a mission before he dies, to find Revan (or whatever the plot happens to be). Somewhere along the line you may meet up with another Jedi Master who promotes you to Knight after hearing of your acomplishments, but he can't go with you on your journey. You when you reach the end of the game, perhaps Revan (if you found him) could promote you to Master, before you went out to finish the game.

that layoff article was published last year i remember reading it last year. just when i think i oct or nov. and that romur bout e3 came out in jan.

i don't think in kotor 3 there will time for a council. the galaxy is going to heck in a handbasket. that why we'll probably be exile/revan. i don't think there time for anymore training padawans. to borrow a line from the U.S. Marines It's do or die. oh for all we know high council is still intact. and kotor is 4000 years earlier then sw:movies. the classrs may have been different then. personally i like them. and i seriously they will throw them out the window.

First of all I have to admit that I haven’t read through all the responses due to a severe lack of time and general lazyness. So if I’m just repeating someone who had the same idea then me, I’m sorry :D

I just wanted to add my two cents

Here goes, first of all, I’m a girl and I like both KOTOR games. But unlike the boyfriend (the only true basis of comparison I have.) I like the games for different reasons.

I’m not so much concerned with the fighting and the range of weapons your PC has at it’s disposal, but I’m in it for the drama.
For the feeling that the galaxy is collapsing around you, for everything that you once held dear is vanishing and such…

But to the point now. I have no suggestions story-wise. If Reven and the Exile would be incorporated in KOTOR 3, it would be handy if you could have an extra options screen in the beginning of your game similar to the one you create your character with.
But the only difference is, with this option screen you could recreate your own Reven and Exile, portrait wise, but also alignment- wise.

I’m not saying they should be playable, but should they make a cameo of some sorts, then their images and personalities would fit your personal picture.

I spent hours building those characters and I suppose so have all of you. Everyone makes their ‘own’ story and it would just be nice to continue that.

The only drawback of this is that there must be at least four different ‘storylines’ matching the gender and alignment of both your Reven and Exile.
And of course it would mess with the canonical LS ending.

That was it. :D

Ohh. ok then, thanks for pointing that out! hopefully a video or something will be shown at E3...

i have admit that that layoff article is older then i thought it was posted 08/13/04.

What about two stories? In the beggining you choose Revan or the Exile, and start the game has the character you choosed. However, a menu will come to recreate both characters (Select their appearence). And when I mean two stories is REALLY two stories, not the same game but with the possibility to choose one character or another.

Then at the last quarter of the game (If it doesnt get rushed... ha ha.. no? :(. make the Exile and Revan stories meet and continue as one (story), I hope you understand what I meant)

i think your character shouldnt have to be a jedi or sith. if you ever read the captions that go along w/ some of the robes you get, you get some background about the force sensitives who wear them. these guys dont even belong to the jedi order (atleast i dont think they do). there's the Matukai, Baran Do, Gray Jedi, Jal Shey, and Zeison Sha. kreia was neutral for most of the game and so was jolee in kotor 1. your character should be able to choose. that'd be awesome if you could choose to be one of these classes.

Matukai - combat-based and more specifically hand-to-hand combat. they're the only ones who can unlock alot more unarmed combat feats and corresponding jedi powers.

Baran Do - these guys are supposed to be patient, wise and self relient. (btw, you should really gain xp for passing by enemies unnoticed w/ stealth and talking your way out of situations, esp for ls characters)

Gray Jedi - these guys would be like mercenaries or bountyhunters. working for themselves and gaining extra combat feats and stealth feats or something.

Jal Shey - these guys are supposed to be intellectual so they'd be your skills people.

Zeison Sha - these guys would be combat-based too but not specifically hand-to-hand.

i guess i would just try to put the idea out there.

i think you will find a few people agree with that i for one do...

i liked the new robes in kotor 2 but they should have left the ones from kotor 1 in too, you know, the ones w/ just the legs and torso part. in the next one they should def have a lot more variety and have more elaborate outfits too. like the star forge robes, those were awesome, but make them accessible earlier in the game, not at the end. they have to do something w/ the armor too. its pretty much all the same w/ just different colors. same w/ the robes. all i saw was the same robe w/ either brown and white, black and gray, green (matukai), or gray. def need more jedi outfits in general, not just robes. they should have more jedi armor or even just casual jedi outfits or something. they shoud try to be really original too. like it would be awesome if your character could find something like the outfit komari vosa had in Bounty Hunter, or something like luke skywalker's plain black outfit. i like the idea of capes too. i think that should be a seperate block tho. so you can customize more, like have mandalorian armor with a black cape or something.

your character should be able to construct a unique lightsaber hilt which exemplifies their fighting style. the hilt should not only add bonuses to certain attrributes or rolls but it should also be activated in a different way and maybe the character gains special feats based upon the hilt.

curved hilt (dooku) - this should add big bonuses to attack, damage and dexterity but a penalties to blaster bolt deflection. and if you use one in each hand there should either be no penalty or even a bonus due to fast style. the attacking should be completely different from any other style with a lot of stabs and quick cuts and the way your character guards themselves w/ the lightsaber from other melee attacks should be different.

silver jedi lightsaber (obi-wan)- this one is pretty well balanced. bonuses to attack and damage when fighting non-lightsaber wielding enemies and a big bonus to blaster bolt deflection. at a major disadvantage tho when fighting an opponent w/ a curved hilt. they'll have to make up for it by using the force in combat. penalties are added when wielding one in each hand. the attacking should involve a lot of spinning and swings to keep your opponent on the defense but leaves you open to attack as well.

black sith lightsaber (vader's) - this adds big bonuses to damage, attack and strength but penalties to dexterity, defense and blaster bolt deflection. this one counters the curved hilt by using raw strength and power to smash through opponents but leaves them vulnerable at times.

in jedi academy there was a lightsaber hilt that was thin on both ends but got wider in the middle... maybe this one could add big bonuses to dexterity and defense and blaster bolt deflection b/c its smaller and easier to manuever w/ but penalties to strength and ability to hit. if there is one in each hand, bonus to hit but more of a penalty to strength.

just an idea...

Actually both JKO and JKA were among my Top Disappointments in terms of using a 'just like KOTOR' _scripted_ combat systems. At least JK (with the Saber-X mods especially) gave you true control of the blade.

By the button you chose to attack with and the direction of step as you moved.

This is actually highly accurate in terms of _footwork_ (facing, spacing and pacing) controlling more of the fight than most novices would like to admit. It's just clumsy when you try to maintain body orientation with (often opposed) attack styles in any kind of fluid continuum of cuts.

I also find it /hilarious/ that all these people 'clog up' the fight and while you are blade locked with one, the other guy has essentially free rights to lop off your head and yet... does not.

IMO, what needs to happen is to have a programmable -KATA- system so that you learn how to kill with a 'Vitruvian Man' type setup for individual strokes and then go to several Jedi Masters to link those strokes into patterns.

From there, a 'statistical' system could be really workable. Just on the basis of "I have 10 strokes. He has 4. His buddy has 6. If I attack with X Kata, I can kill him in 5 strokes. If I attack him in Y Kata, I can _break his pattern_ (AI) in /two/.

If you let the computer play things out, you will beat opponent A but not B, ending up 'tied' (blade lock) or dead for the next melee round. BUT if you choose the right kata, _manually_, then you can beat Opponent 1 in two cuts AND have 8 left for Opponent 2. At which point letting the AI handle things lets you sit back and enjoy the popcorn moment.

Of course when there's 4-6 bad guys (or whatever it is that Kotor's engine will support for upper engagement limit), things get a little more 'challenging'.

The key then being a _limited_ mouse freeze and view slew system in which the player has only so long to look around and 'choose a target' as a function of Force Sliding into a combat, beating his initial opponent, SNAP!, like that. And by doing so, make the /rest/ of the enemy attack 'through each other' (i.e. by ranks so that only a few can get their weapons pointed at you at any one time.)

At which point the player can REALLY start to become a blade dancer seeing his enemies rythms. And breaking them. En masse.

And it's truly SIMPLE too!

QWE
ASD
ZXC

Cut strokes you monkey-see, monkey-do on a Jedi training dojo's mats with a Master as your teacher. Back and forth (up and down the mats), and the closer your Simon type pattern press is to perfect, the more cuts you learn at that particular 'level up'.

Q to C is a diagonal cut from the opponents right shoulder to his left knee. D to A is a recover up to his left ribs and across his belly button. Etc. etc.

1-0 then become your 'preprogrammed' Kata selections based on a certain number of strokes available per achieved level up (from a start of say 4 for a Novice and going towards 20-30 for a Master).

And your mouse control 'freeze time' (right) and 'designate/reject target' (left+center) as well as the 'clairvoyant' camera slew around your character's shoulders (you could theoretically attack someone _behind you_ with a leaping reversal in a fantastic 'cinematic' approach.).

Of course if you go this route then two other things MUST happen:

1. Everybody must be an accomplished Jedi (close to Yoda's level of mastery to be honest) from the very start of the game. I despise RPG's which try to mix D&D and Techno and in the KOTOR universe, this means fighting with swords for at least 40% of the initial game and then graduating up to a saber after the 'feel' of the gameplay is totally medieval-hosed. Jedi + Saber + Force must not be separated nor 'learned, gradually'. Because a Padawan that couldn't take care of himself right from the start is too weak to survive against a host of gunners who have technology on their side.

2. Sabers MUST be 'first hit lethal'. Or at least incapacitating. No more Cortosis or Shielding balloney (any sign of them in the OT? NO!?). I don't mind blaster-proofed armor because that is something which could realistically swing back and forth in terms of measure and countermeasure vs. energy intensities. But the saber's inherent '6ft weakness' in terms of instantaneous reach must be compensated for by it's '100 times more lethal' contact lethality. REAL WEAPONS have REAL CONSEQUENCES. And so you must be willing to follow the (simple) rules of combat to win. Or you _will_ lose. And have to restart from a fixed auto-save point a lot further back along the adventure path.


Saberist Out.

>>
I would like for the game to start with you being a level 1 Jedi Padawan. Possibly have a member of the Council as your master. Maybe not. Anyway, when you reach level 15 you automatically become a Jedi Knight with new feats, skills, and force powers open to you; and you no longer have your master in your party (if he/she is in your party anyway) because there is no more use for him/her. Also, at level15 you could also select your very own Jedi Padawan (giving you a side-quest depending on their gender.) Once your character reaches level30 (your Padawan reaching level15, you having successfully trained him/her to Knighthood) you become a Jedi Master; with the most advanced feats, skills, and force powers open to you. This would be a perfect way to get rid of the forced classes that do not even exist in the movies. For example, Barris Ofee was a Padawan. When she reached Knighthood, sure she took on the position of a Jedi Healer, but she is still a Jedi Knight (plain and simple) reguardless. And had she lived to train a Padawan who succeeded in his/her trials and became a Knight, then she would have likewise been ordained a Jedi Master. Simple as that.
>>

Actually, IMO, you need to 'make it even simpler'. In that:

1. These are JEDI so their trials to level up should involve at least as much FORCE based 'puzzles/challenges' as they do finding X or breaking the code to get to Y.

In this, I think they should return to the original P&P rules by which you had something like Perceive, Affect and Alter. And it was by mixing these three 'senses of the universal flow' that you actually achieved the various in-game effects.

As an example: to stop a sabotaged (pressure mine on hull over engine compartment) ship from tumbling back out of the sky as it tries to make orbit, a Jedi might have to 'step outside himself' (and the wildly somersaulting innards of the vessel) and to envision it's hull form. And then 'nudge here and there' to stabilize it's fall. And then wrap it in a gravimetric field shift to lighten it sufficient to 'glide' rather than fall to a splatter.

Succeed and you LIVE. By living, The Force (not some entirely too bureaucratic mentor or Council) sees that you deserve to have added power and understanding of it's will.

Size matters not. But envisioning the THREE separate patterns (think something like a matching a screensaver 'swirlie') is no easy task. Because you are holding them together, ALL AT ONCE.

If your basic Jedi Powers can be broken down into Telepathy (read/adjust other peoples intentions and emotions and eventually 'thoughts'), Clairvoyance (see beyond line of sight), Precognition (see/sense events before they occur), Telekinesis (accelerate molecular elements differentially) and Levitation (alter local gravity) then use the PAA rules to -work- within those limits.

Rather than try to invent wild new powers as graphical displays for every game. Powers which are ONLY relevant to combat or 'cinematography' (nice movie, no interactive story). Not to _what it is_ to be a Jedi.

2. Similarly, once you get to the point where you are able to maintain several patterns in your head at once, you should be able to mix and match from among 'standing' Force Protections that allow you to (for instance) walk into a fight, calmly.

Among these might be Absorb/Redirect/Barrier. So that a little slow troll like Yoda wouldn't /have to/ fight against all blaster bolts. But could waddle his way into a fight. And the warping of The Force around him would literally 'remove from this reality' those things which could hurt him.

In this, KOTOR really _needs_ to improve. Because the ability to survive a fight is often a function of 'combattive intent' as a function of preparation before (armor, shields, drugs) and none of these things reflects the notion that Jedi 'just are'.

Ready BECAUSE they are Relaxed.

Naturally at peace with the flow of things. Inwardly focussed to have a greater outward sense of what is really happening etc. etc.

One other thing. As others have suggested, rather than be dependent on slaughter for XP, you should get massive increases for using your Force Powers 'the way the _situational ethic_ intended'. The Force sets the moment. How you respond to it is what makes you special and uniquely suited to fulfilling it's will through your expression.

There is no random chance only chosen outcomes.

Specific to this, a JEDI story should end with an expression of THE FORCE not combat perse.

There is an old Chinese morality tale: If a man breaks into the Forbidden City and steals one of the Emperor's goldfish (a capital offense) from his outdoor water gardens and then is caught trying to escape and so swallows the goldfish, losing his profit as well as the proof that he stole, what should the Emperor do when the guards bring the thief before him?

A. Order the man killed and his head hung from the walls as an example.
B. Kill the man with torture because those goldfish were precious.
C. Wait a week and let the man go.

If you choose C you choose 'The Emperors Gift'.

Because, with all your wealth, you can buy another fish. While, without the living proof, the thief has only another fish tale. And because even if he is believed, it will only be a case of showing the world that MERCY is a choice that the _truly powerful_ can afford.

Only the fearful need to 'fight first'. Because that is the only way that they can survive a given situation that they were dumb enough to tumble into and they know it. A Jedi Master doesn't fear. Because he can literally warp fate to 'blend around himself' those threats which he perceives before they become dangerous. And so render under to those who would hurt him, not the other cheek. But _THE EMPEROR'S GIFT_.

Lucas has no clue how to write stories. His is entertainment at a banal teenage adrenal-hyped level. But just imagine if you will...

Episode II Clone Battle: Yoda steps off the spaceship and sees the conflict on Geonosis' plain raging before him. And rather than order all guns to fire on a starship, bringing it back to earth with a seismic effect like unto a Rictor 9 earthquake (driving the shattered femurs of ALL infantry up through their pelvis').

He simply reaches into himself and whispers to all present: "Cease."

And the battlefield falls quiet. Because THAT is //Power//. And The Way of the Jedi is to mediate disaster not to exacerbate it.

And Dooku sees this, as he attempts to flee, in fear of what The Light can really do if called to it.

Which brings me to my last 'potent quotable' for the day:

Skill is the ability to do one thing, really well.
Power is the ability to do many things, with skill.
Grace is the ability to know when and where to be to accomplish those actions which most need accomplishing, whether by power or skill.

I have yet to see a truly Powerful Jedi in any of the Kotor games or indeed the SWU as a whole. I have NEVER seen a Graceful one.

Such is where KOTOR 3 should be headed.


Saberist Out.

the council is gone. the jedi are nearly wiped out. kotor 3 is going a epic ending not a new beginning.

It has been said that Obsidian is working on a project that is not a sequel and not a Bioware license. I wonder if they are working on something that uses the new Episode III engine from The Collective. And maybe it is a SW RPG but just not KOTOR III.

Obviously, I have not played a game with that engine yet but it looks like it is going to be really good. I think Obsidian should look into licensing that engine so they can focus on the story. KOTOR III's story needs to be really tight.

This is a quote from PCZONE:

It's been overstated by press and publisher alike that Sith Lords is KOTOR's The Empire Strikes Back. They said the same thing about Attack Of The Clones too; the prequel sequel that was supposed to lead us bleakly into Episode III. In truth, Spaceballs had darker moments. Here though, the comparison between game and film is apt, for not only is Sith Lords the chronological centrepiece for a planned KOTOR trilogy...

Usually their right about stuff like this, in fact I agree with their opinion that this game is the chronological centrepiece for this trilogy. Another quote from them is:

It's not quite up to the standard of Empire Strikes Back perhaps, but it's still certainly the second best middle act to grace any Star Wars trilogy. Let's just hope that the next episode can at least equal The Return Of The Jedi...

At the end of the day though I think its only Obsidian who can tell us whether they truely planned The Sith Lords as the centrepiece of the trilogy. So Obisidan did ya???

I also think it would be good to have customizable hilts for the lightsaber. It is not really a big issue for me but it would be cool and it is an idea that many have expressed. They would be smart to include that in the next installment.

Oh, and people are forgetting...

Master Vandar cannot make any appearance in K3 simply for the fact of the matter that he is DEAD. (Unless he appears, in the manner others think Kreia will, as a Force Ghost. And for that matter, Kreia HATED the Force - and wished to kill it - so I don't think she became one with it. To say the least.)

If you chose that Revan returned to the path of the Light Side, then Master Vandar died with the last Jedi Council on Katarr.

If you chose that Revan submitted to the Dark Side again, then Master Vandar obviously died in the Republic's assault on the Star Forge.

Please pay a little more attention, people.

I actually would prefer to see a Vandar force ghost over a Kreia force ghost because I would trust him alot more.

As far as having enough masters around to have a council, that would really not be as much of a logistical problem as you might think. You could have:

Bastila
Atris
Jolee
Bao-Dur
Brianna (Handmaiden)
Mical (the Disciple....he could be the Jedi historian)
Atton (probably not a great idea given his gritty past)
Mira (probably not a great idea given her gritty past)
Visas (now that would be interesting!)


also, the two Twilek masters from KOTOR I (even if they were believed to have died, yes) and anyone else who may still be in hiding.

The reason you will probably not see a Jedi council at the beginning of KOTOR III has nothing to do with available candidates...it has to do with the story. Rebuilding the Jedi Order would be a good subplot for the PC in the next game.

thank you thank you...

now can you answer this for me. cause i'm curious as what you think can bastila and carth be party members in k3? and if possible to be revan again?

If you are Revan again, then it would be very good, story wise, to have Kreia return as a force ghost. Therefore Mastar and Apprentice can go at it throughout the game.

[quote=Plano Skywalker,Apr 1 2005, 10:43 AM]
[quote=Jedi Master Dakari,Apr 1 2005, 02:28 PM]Oh, and people are forgetting...



The reason you will probably not see a Jedi council at the beginning of KOTOR III has nothing to do with available candidates...it has to do with the story. Rebuilding the Jedi Order would be a good subplot for the PC in the next game.

[/quote]

Not really. KOTOR 3 should be more about the ending of the trilogy, and more about the end of the True Sith.

If there's a next game after KOTOR 3, then the rebuilding Jedi idea fits much better.

also bring back bastila and carth since they are alive. or let some questions say if they come back as party members. but i would like them to return. not so much carth but he has grown on me.

FF type battles with all brand new summons! (Haha just kidding)

Oh, I would agree with that. You're right, rebuilding the Order is big enough in scope for an entire game or even a trilogy.

I personally would not mind being Revan again. I would not even mind starting off at 15th level or so. However, I just think it would be really hard to do, especially since we are using a system that puts so much emphasis on leveling.

Remember the NPCs on your ship. If Revan is 15th level, do they start at 14th?
All kinds of logistical problems with it.

There is also the story problem with it. We already had a PC that lost his connection to the Force (the Exile). If they do decide to delevel someone, I think it would make the most sense (continuity-wise) to delevel the Exile.

Then Revan could make an appearance and even participate as a commander in a multi-threaded endgame.

The problem with Revan as an NPC is not just alignment but gender and even appearance and the sound of his voice. But they could come up with some creative way to ask for that information (at an intelligence lab midgame, for instance).

Just a thought.

Carth should return, but only to continuie his role as in KOTOR 2. As a fleet admiral, but as a conclusion to his story. I'd like to have Dustil be a party member, and for both to reunite at the end.

Bastila should return as a party member

I'd also like to see Mission and Zaalbar return(non party member fashion). Of course this is only for lightside, but it would be nice to have Zaalbar(if chieftain by this time) allie his wookies with the republic against the Sith. If Darkside have Zaalbars father continuie as chieftain, and he combine forces with the Republic. Works both ways.

And of course Jolee Bindo. I can't see him dead, at least not yet.

KOTOR 3 should be all about tieing up the lose ends, so when it ends you won't be asking what happened to this character and that.


Another thing I'd like to see, IS the stuff you wear. For example, if I pick up a Sith amulet in the next game, I'd like to see the thing on the PC. Not just imagining it's there like with the many, Shields, gaunlets, visors, and so on.

If the game takes place shortly after Kotor II, and the Devs decide to kill off Revan, then I'm sorry to say that the Male LS Revan would have to meet a VERY high standard with me... something like this:

Revan, dying, Bastila cradling (or doing the next best engine-allowed thing)- Bastila...

Bastila- What is it, my love?

Revan- Promise me... promise me that you will hold to... *lifeblood cough*... the light.

Bastila- I will do my best, my love.

Revan- No! *cough* Promise me... that you will finish what I started... *cough*

Bastila- I... I promise.

Revan-*Coughing*

Bastila- Rest now, my love. All will be taken care of...

Revan dies the death of a 'True Jedi' in that era (Force Ghost or otherwise).

Bastila rises, and faces the PC (if not Revan, of course)- Hurry, we must go. I... I have to keep my promise.

Well, that is a VERY watered down portion of my ideal DOLSMR.

I've found that main character deaths, espeically at the start of a movie/game, never seen to work that well.

Now this idea i like.

Barzarel has a good idea there, but we could try to combine my idea with yours to make it far better then Kotor I % II combined.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------
| My Idea |
-------------------

Well, If there is a Kotor III, i would like to see the following:

1) Better Graphics Engine (with equal & full support for ATI & Nvidia Cards)

2) Selectable D3D or OpenGL Renderer (both have equal development)

3) More Planets to visit (10 or so, each with their own problems to solve)

4) More Side Quests (each quest has a good & bad solution)

5) Level Cap will be 50 (like kotor 2, but you can reach it without cheating or using glitches)

6) No Random Loot (I preferred it the Kotor I way)

7) Better Endings (i don't think anyone will disagree here. lol)

New Ship (You get a totally new ship, which is different depending on which one you decide to be on.....Jedi or Sith)

9) Unique Force Powers and Feats (Main Character randomly gets a bonus feat and force power from 10 different feats and force powers.....5 LS & 5 DS....which is recieved after a certain amount of levels or something like that)

10) Different Party Members (you get to accually pick which members join your group depending on your allignment)

11) AI Abilities (Because some people moan about the games being too easy, the AI should be Addaptive and cunning, it will learn from the way you play the game and alter the game to give you a heck of a challenge) (Think Homeworld 2, but more realistic)

11a) Bosses (Since bosses are masters and far stronger then their peers, they should be immune to all force power attacks....i bet that screws up all you force hoggers)

I know this will take quite a while, they could use the same engine i guess, which would shorten the time considerably, but either way i prefer a lengthy development for stable gameplay and near bugless experience, rather then a shorter development with unstable and buggy experience.

Also, there is room for improvement

What do you guys think of that?

^ I think that you have some very solid ideas and I would certainly consider some of them if it were up to me. "



I do not think that Bastila and Carth will be party members in K3. That is not to say that they will not make more appearances, though. And as for being Revan again...no. Simply put. The assumed KotOR trilogy has a standard that has been set, and one of the set types is a new main character for each individual game; respectively.

About Bastila and Carth:
I, for one, obviously want Bastila to return as one of the Jedi Masters on the newly revived Council. Will it happen? Maybe not but I can hope. But she was given a task, like the others, to keep the Republic strong for what is to come. And Carth should also make another appearance. This is imparitive since he is an admiral and was given the task to keep the Republic, militarily, stable.

On to another thing...
Some people have mentioned Dustil Onasi making a return, but have also forgotten that he was under training at the Sith Academy. He was even the most powerful student (until Revan's arrival) and caught the eye of Master Uthar. If you chose Revan to be on the Light Side, then I think he should make an appearance as a Jedi in K3. Not necessarily on the Council, but maybe even the main characters master at the first of the game. He's very much older, has obvious experience, and is considerably powerful in the Force. It's not a completely baseless idea. You just have to consider the facts for it to make any sense.

There is no council, all the Jedi are dead. Well save a VERY slim few.

This is not happy time for the galaxy, and KOTOR 3 shouldn't be looked at as a game that will have a new beginning. With a new story that has the TRUE SITH as the enemy, but forgets everything KOTOR 2 and 1 did.

One of the points of both games was to get rid of the enemies so that the True Sith would have no one standing in their way. KOTOR 1 tells of how the Mandalorians were given a big hit. KOTOR 2 tells of the final destruction of the Jedi and the Revan/Malak Sith.

So there is no one, and thus Bastila on a council is mute, because there is no council.

No KOTOR 3 should, and most likely will be, about a banged up Republic vs the Sith. The Republic is weak and ripe for the picking.

And I see no reason why Bastila shouldn't be a PC concidering her connection with Revan. Regardless of whether he is the PC or not. The only way to finish her love story with Revan is to have her along for the ride.

Dustil is fine as well

More dramatism ingame. Make some characters in party die along the way,some new come in their place,something like that....
Make places,where PC should decide,whether do this or that,and thus loosing one char or another.... but plz,no option "I save them both!".... make more difficult decitions ingame. (f. ex " I can save either visas or handmaiden,so I have to choose...." or "some1 should stay,to activate somekind of detonator or smth,to destroy <insert name here> ,fate of galaxy depends on it,so you have to choose 1 of 3 chars with highest influence in party,as volounteer (highest influence,coz low inf chars wont egree to do such thing for you), to stay behind and activate bloody thing,sacrifising (I think it spelled incorrect) his life for greater good" ) I think that would be cool,especially when there lifes of your most beloved characters at stake.... heck,I guess some ppl may follow the path of the Drunk Side for some days (or weeks?) ,after loosing such NPC
Of course more persoonalities to NPCs who accompany you....

No random item drop,coz it complete bulls**t when you find 3 and more same items,that supposed to be unique.

Make 2 semiseparate storylines,so player can choose at start to play either Revans storyline,or Exiles. Make them cross at some points of the game. Would be cool to achive same (hmmm... or not?) goal,from different points of viev.

some ideas for companions in the next game:

LS companions:

starfighter pilot - not carth or atton, more of a wedge type of character in the original three episodes, a good guy and an excellent pilot, focuses on blaster pistol

whill - yoda's species, not necessarily a jedi tho (altho i cant see one of them using a huge blaster rifle, lol)

queen talia - that'd be cool if you went back to onderon and now she was a senator or adviser to the new king or queen(episode 2 amidala) and she decided to go w/ you. (only briefly on onderon, they really need to work on the different planets). focuses on melee weapons. i think she'd also be a cool character b/c she wouldnt be like any other companion from k1 or k2. maybe a love interest if you're a male character.....it'd def be a change from bastila or handmaiden.

jal shey/zeison sha/baran do/gray jedi/matukai - a character from one of these sects would be pretty cool.

bothan - this was mentioned before and i think it was a great idea. prolly be your skills people and def stealth (bothan spies)

padawan - choose him/her on coruscant. should def be able to be an alien. you should be able to walk around and get to know them and then go tell a master which padawan you want or something. this would be your first companion.

DS companions:

trandoshan - they enslave wookies and stuff. i think it'd be a nice touch to have a new alien on your team. maybe later they could betray you (if you're the exile) for killing the slavers on nar shadaa (maybe they were related or somethin)

falleen - this was mentioned by the person who suggested the bothan, also a great idea. this companion would have to be really arrogant and really good in battle. he/she would have to have a high charisma and if they were in your party during an argument w/ a person of the opposite sex they should be able to help you out and resolve it.

mercenary/bountyhunter - someone more subtle and quiet than canderous and mandalore. more of a jango fett type but not a mandalorian. maybe he could also be a gray jedi or something too. it'd be cool if he was force sensitive but he wouldnt let you train him right away but he could still do little stuff like force persuade and opening doors using the force. focuses on blaster pistols.

sith woman - someone kinda like komari vosa in bounty hunter or the character in the clonewars tv show that works for dooku, completely crazy, but wants to learn more about the force from you.

sith apprentice - if the sith temple on malachor is up and running (or someone suggested another sith planet that started w/ a Z) you have a few recruits to choose from. like the padawan this would be your first companion.

yeah,it would be cool to being able to choose to be a LS or DS char from begining (thus starting in some sith academy for ds,and some.... errr... padawan scool ( :D ) for LS, or something like that...

personally i rather write how that love story end. i mean had the option to fall in love with her so i think we should as player should have say in it. we forgeting if revan was a girl carth was her interested that why i say he need back. if Revan is the pc.

i think over looking one council people no know what happen to the high council. but the other council wipe out one oor another in both 1&2

RoadReaction's idea for a villain is pretty good, its on page 7.

my ideas:

1. YOU CONTINUE W/ YOUR EXILE CHARACTER. At the start up menu you choose either Dark Jedi or Light Jedi, no classes and no Sith, "you are not truly Sith". You start out at level 30 and you can choose 6 powers and 10 feats. You are automatically given the Force Crush or Enlightenment Power.

2. If you choose a Dark Jedi you are the head of a Dark Jedi Temple on Malachor. If you choose a Jedi you start out as a member of the Jedi Council on Coruscant.

3. You are in a chamber either at your Dark Jedi base or the Jedi Temple and your first task is constructing a new lightsaber where you are given hilt and color options (only warm colors if sith, only cool colors if jedi). You are wearing either a Dark Jedi or Jedi Master Robe.

4. You are reminded that you are supposed to choose an Apprentice or Jedi Padawan from among the ranks.

5. You are told by the Jedi Council (Bastila, Mical and others) OR your DS Advisers (Visas Marr, Handmaiden, Atton?, new character) that distress signals have been coming/intercepted from planets w/ the recently constructed jedi training grounds of the republic.

6. The distress signals are coming from the Enclave on Dantooine, Sancutary on Yavin, Institution on Mon Calamari and the Polar Base on Telos. The Jedi Council/Advisers and you agree that you should investigate this w/ your new padawan/apprentice. You depart w/ your NEW ship. (2 different ones for jedi/dark jedi).

7. The true Sith have finally begun their attack on the Jedi and the galaxy. They do not rely on warships or assasins. ALL of these new sith are force sensitives. They have lightsabers and are just as knowledgable about the force as you are so they have the same powers and skills. They also will have a new, terrifying look. They use state-of-the-art starfighters to quickly and quietly land on planets and storm the jedi training grounds.

8. Juhani is the Jedi Master in charge of Dantooine
Mira and Jolee are Masters on Yavin IV (Mira is on Yavin only if you're LS)
Bao-Dur and Handmaiden are the Masters on Telos (Handmaiden only if you're LS)
Bastila and Mical are on the council on Coruscant
Visas is the Master in charge on Mon Calamari, if exile is LS
Atton is on the Jedi Space Station in the InnerRim which will be accessible after the other four planets dealt w/. Atton will be there only if exile is LS.

9. If you are a Jedi you are going to these places to rescue Jedi and holocrons, not to take back the training grounds b/c there are too many Sith and the council has told you to wait so they can think of a strategy to stop them(hmm..Mandalorian Wars). If you are a Dark Jedi you are going to these places to figure out where they are striking from, how they are so powerful and to possibly capture these grounds while the jedi and sith are fighting. If you are a Dark Jedi you will get the chance to kill these Jedi Masters and maybe convert one or two.

10. After these four planets are captured by the Sith, the Jedi have no choice but to fall back to the InnerRim. The Republic is defenseless b/c no soldier can stand against the Sith and (this would be a cool cutscene) if the Republic tries to shoot one of the captured training grounds to get rid of the them, the Sith will use the force to destroy the crew or control them. (Palpatine & clones ep.3). If you are a Dark Jedi you return to Malachor to find that the Sith have killed many of your Dark Jedi Followers and have tricked you, they lured you from your DS world and now they've taken control of it too. You have no choice but to take one of the ships orbiting Malachor (if thats your DS base) and w/ your Followers and Companions, plan your next course of action. Your vessel would be an old Sith cruiser like that of Darth Nihlus and it is now your base of operations.

11. After the 4 planets are dealt w/ there are 3 more training grounds closer to the core. A Jedi Space Station somwhere in the Inner Rim, a Jedi Academy on Alderaan, and the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. You arrive at the Space Station in your small ship, to find it deserted. As you are looking around you hear an explosion that rocks the station. You run up to the deck above the hangar where your ship is, to find it has exploded and the hangar is on fire. You arent alone.....
You have no choice but to find a new ship and guess what it is.......the Ebon Hawk! You cant get rid of it. So for the rest of the game you're on the Ebon Hawk. You return to Coruscant on the Ebon Hawk or to your Sith Vessel.

12. Coruscant is the last or second to last planet to reach. If you were a Dark Jedi there were a few Jedi Masters that escaped from you and went back to defend Coruscant. Bastila, Mical and Handmaiden def need to be on Coruscant at the end. Mira dies on Yavin ("she will die on a forgotten world" or somethin like that) trying to save padawans from the Sith if you're LS or from you if you're DS.

13. Coruscant's space is well defended w/ Republic warships and starfighters. The Sith leave their DS worlds and captured planets to invade Coruscant and the Jedi Temple. They easily get past the blockade. If you're DS, however, you're gonna need help getting your remaining DJ Followers past the blockade (they can't all fit in the Ebon Hawk and your Sith Vessel is no longer able to withstand a fullscale battle). This is where you can ally w/ Czerka corporation and Mandalorians. If you help them w/ some things they will provide ships and weapons for you to run the blockade and get to the Temple. If you're LS, the jedi you rescued will help to defend the Temple.

14. Somewhere in the midst of this is the Sith Master who is doing all this and Revan. This is where a big twist could be added at the end regarding the Sith Master and Revan.

if you're gonna start out at level 30 as the exile you're going to learn stronger force powers:

DS powers:

force throw: you can choose an object in the environment (canister, footlocker, bag, etc.) and force throw it at an opponent.
force strike: you can choose 3 objects in the environment to throw at an opponent simultaneously and they can be stunned.
force bombardment: you can choose up to 5 objects to throw at an opponent or 2 life forms to throw at them, rendering all the life forms stunned.

force choke: the opponent is raised off his feet into the air and is choked for a few seconds.
force crush: 2 opponents are raised into the air and are dealt a lot of damage (just like in kotor 2)
force destruction: the dark jedi raises both hands in the air and 3 or 4 opponents are raised off the ground, force crushed, and then flown across the room into walls rendering them unconscious (if not already dead).

force lighning
force storm
force chaos: the Dark Jedi can use both hands to shoot lightning at foes directly in front of them, but only stops when the their force is depleted OR the jedi has immunity activated. If the jedi does have immunity activated the dark jedi's force is depleted to fuel the jedi's force and health.

force confusion
force manipulation: the Dark Jedi can take control of up to 2 opponents for a short time. They will act as party memebers in combat but will not be equipable. The Dark Jedi can then direct them to fight foes and open locked containers or doors if they have key cards. They will not be regain their will or turn on the Dark Jedi until the time is up and then they will die.


LS powers:

force disarm: the jedi can disarm either 2 opponents w/ blasters or 1 opponent w/ a lightsaber.

force resist: the jedi can stop dark force energy. lightning will hit a lightsaber, 2 objects will be tossed to the side, and the opponent's choke and manipulation powers will be ineffective.
force immunity: the jedi can absorb dark force energy. lightnining will be absorbed by a free hand to fuel the jedi's force energy and health, all objects will be tossed to the side and the jedi will absorb force energy if choked or manipulated.
Dark Side Reflection; the jedi can reflect DS powers. lightning will be absorbed through one hand and shot back w/ the other, objects will change direction and thrown at the opponent and the opponent will be pushed back when attempting to choke or manipulate the jedi.

feel free to comment or add to any of my previous ideas or this one...

one thing the councils are dead, the jedi are nearly wiped out. i don't think there ernough to be as effective force. i give up trying get a point across that was almost made perfectly clear in game. i think Darth Nuke puts better then me. might add that given the ending of k2 we do not know who survived. the republic fleet is blattered from two wars i doubt seriously they could rebuild all the way in 5 yrs

I have already stated one of my ideas, but people seem to moan about it taking too long to do it, but i think a long development is a good thing, considering the disaster of Kotor II.

There are very few Jedi and Sith left and you are a weak Jedi or Sith. (You choose from the start)

Even though you can start as either a Jedi or a Sith, you just start in different areas and the quests for each side will be totally different. (which means a good replay ability)

You could have some neat stuff in it so you can make money for your main quest of rebuilding the Jedi or the Sith.

You could perhaps have more of a romance in it and seriously improve the engine to allow accual kisses. (because fading to darkness is not my kind of romance)

You get a new ship and it is different in armaments and configuration depending on which side you pick. (Jedi or Sith)

Since it will have 2 different start points and end points, you will be able to pick your own crew from 100s of force sensative NPCs. (train them into the Lightside or seduce them to the darkside)

If you are playing on the Darkside and one of your crew fails you, you get to kill them. (come on admit it, when one of your party members pees you off, you want to kill them, admit it)

Instead of a set number of quests, you could have random quests too and they continusly spawn up on the planets, even after you have been there. (would be pretty cool, it would increase the replay value quite abit)

You can play the whole game solo. (for those that prefer to play on their own, which i normally prefer, it depends on the planet,but in the long run i would prefer the choice to going solo or in a group and i mean all the way through the game)

You will need crew members on your ship to do specific tasks. (making weapons, armour, sabers and robes, including the upgrades for them)

The more good or bad you do, the more people on the opposite side will hunt you down. (you know, be a sith and you get the good guys after you and visa versa for the Jedi)

A New Graphics Engine with equal support and testing on ATI and Nvidia. (So, hopefully far less bugs)

More Planets 10+ (whats the fun in having a starship when you only got like a small amount of planets to travel to? Why not have several planets there for the realism of being there?)

And don't moan about it taking too long, because even if it had only 5 planets, developing a new engine will take a while either way.

i like your idea for some reason. anyway i think it could work with revan and the exile too. with some modications

I want a final stand against the enemy for Revan and Exile LS: All the parties (or what's left) gather and face off against the unending fleet of badguys. You could only control your party of 3, but the others could run around and help fight....

Well, I had to come up with something since all of my GOOD ideas have been said in the previous pages by others... :ph34r:

i cann't believe i'm going to say a ds idea. if revan and exile are ds conquer the galaxy

Uhm, I'm sick and tired of people saying, "But the Jedi are all dead! There can't be a Council!"



How do you know that!? In K2 there were three Jedi left! Masters Vrook, Kavar, and Zez-Kai Ell. Yet, they still formed a Council to decide your fate, and their next step in dealing with the Sith. I'm not counting Atris because she had already fallen to the Dark Side, she only needed to admit it; nor am I counting the exile because he was exiled so many years ago, and never formerly accepted back into the Order by any of the Masters.

Besides, you (nor anyone else for that matter) do not know how many years - and what events - take place between K2 and K3. The three Masters from K2 are stripped of the Force. Some might have even died from it. But had they not, they are Jedi no longer. But there are Jedi who still lived after the game ended. Brianna, Mical, Atton, Bao-Dur, Mira, Visas, Juhani, Jolee, and Bastila. Juhani's and Jolee's fates are unknown, but we all assume they still live somewhere. If all of the masters of the Order are killed, then it is up to the remaining Jedi Knights to take up that role and lead the Order. And forgive me for saying this and sounding so rude, but in my opinion if THREE Jedi can put together a rinky-dink council in the broke down, bootleg piece of $HIT left over on Dantooine, then I'm pretty sure nine of the remaining Jedi could certainly put SOMETHING together.

And if one Jedi (not even trained properly; like Luke) can train Jedi and reconstruct the Order, then (enough years permitted between the two games) I'm sure nine could take on their roles as teachers and train more in the ways of the Jedi.

Just because the Jedi Masters that we know and have become familiar with have died or had the Force stripped from them does not mean that the Order ceases to exists! It is not that hard to comprehend. When a Master on the council dies, yeah its sad...blah blah blah, but he/she is simply replaced by someone else. And if fate decides that all on the council die out suddenly, then other Jedi rise to the occassion and accept that responsibility.

It is not set in stone (nor out of reach in any sense of the phrase) that "Ooo, all the Jedi are dead, there is NO COUNCIL!" Because who are your to say there isn't? I actually have more evidence and proof to say it is possible than you do to say it isn't. So, unless a developer or writter from K3 tells me any different, I'm going to be operating under the idea that there will be actual Jedi (and possibly a Jedi Council) in the next game.

If your theories are different than others, that doesn't mean you have the right to flame them! Ever since I started posting here I have always respected others' opinions and never once have I berated someone about them. I only wish that you show others that same respect!

i apologize for my statement i think this issue is open each person own take on it. but there is one council that we haven't heard anything since kotor 1 and it was question to acadmey council on dantooine. that would be high council which if it is still in contaact love to be revan and have to try to perusade them bout the inpending invasion. i don't think sith are stupid enough to try to kill the high council on the capitol. that amount to bout a suicide mission. but we know there onlu jedi showin themselves this point in time dus the order is a wreck right now. but i think the high council is probably all that left at point in way of councils. "IF there still around"