Dragon Age discussion Options

[Oner]

I don't see why people compare DA to BG2. I think it is a more fair comparison to compare it to BG1. Compare DA2 to BG2.

No. They had plenty of time, money and experience. Why should a new game be compared to their first and oldest game instead of their best?

Because BG 1 is grindier I guess?

[Starwars]

Curiously DA is probably the worst paced game Bioware has ever made,

No, it's definitely not.

and that was never previously a problem

Yes, it definitely was.

Even the empty areas of BG1 weren't as tedious as non stop combat in DA.

Actually, they were.

R00fles!

[RPGmasterBoo]

The "everything must be voice acted" deal is such a waste of resources. Not to mention how hard it is to keep the quality consistent.

But it feels nice to hear them talk instead of reading through faceless lines of dialog. Besides games need VO otherwise Claudia Black wouldn't have a job.

It does feel nice sometimes but I'm under the impression that it costs a huge amount of money. Money that can be spent on other, more interesting content.

Dialog is faceless if its badly written.
Torment had almost nothing voiced, but every line was worth reading more than the voiced stuff in almost every other RPG is worth listening to.

This post has been edited by RPGmasterBoo: Feb 12 2010, 02:37 PM

[RPGmasterBoo]

Curiously DA is probably the worst paced game Bioware has ever made,

No, it's definitely not.

and that was never previously a problem

Yes, it definitely was.

Even the empty areas of BG1 weren't as tedious as non stop combat in DA.

Actually, they were.

R00fles!

Did Volo hack your account?

Because BG 1 is grindier I guess?

Anything for a more favorable outcome huh?

This post has been edited by RPGmasterBoo: Feb 12 2010, 02:35 PM

[Sand]

New game engine, new setting, and new rules system. I am willing to give Bioware some slack. If you don't like Dragon Age so much, Boo-boy, don't play it. Don't get the DLCs or expansions. Heaven forbid, do ever get the sequel. Just go and keep playing the old games over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

[Sand]

Torment had almost nothing voiced, but every line was worth reading more than the voiced stuff in almost every other RPG is worth listening to.

Compared to the newer games Torment is boring and tedious.

[RPGmasterBoo]

None of it is particularly new but whatever. I haven't finished Dragon Age yet, but what I've seen so far is disappointing.

I've played most of the better RPG's multiple times. I'm hungry for new stuff. But that doesn't mean that I'll let obvious and unnecessary flaws slide. Besides I don't dislike all new games as is obvious from my sig.

Torment had almost nothing voiced, but every line was worth reading more than the voiced stuff in almost every other RPG is worth listening to.

Compared to the newer games Torment is boring and tedious.

If you have the IQ of a potted plant, yes.

This post has been edited by RPGmasterBoo: Feb 12 2010, 03:23 PM

[Stephen Amber]

It does feel nice sometimes but I'm under the impression that it costs a huge amount of money. Money that can be spent on other, more interesting content.

The actor's guild/union, talent agencies, voice trainers and such have made it so. Hollywood's tentacles have fully inserted themselves into the lucrative gaming industry when it comes to voice acting work. Tentacles that try to suck and eke out as much revenue as they can...

[Meshugger]

QUOTE
DA showed me that Bioware has the potential to make DA2 to be this centurys BG2.


I think this is the big one. DA2 is surely going to use the same engine, just with souped up graphics. They are clearly using ME to get the short focused visceral cinematic experience down, so DA2 should have clearance to be a bigger, more sprawling RPG adventure. More classes and character options in general, more imaginative enemies and tactical set pieces (remember, BG enemies were just walking fleshbags compared to BG2's mage setpieces), and nwo the lore is in people's minds, to do more crazy things with it. I agree with starwars that the lore had good potential to be used for good quests and good quests.

I disagree. I'll elaborate on this later though, when I chew through more of the story - to make sure I'm not wrong.

I finished the forest.

So far there are some things I don't like:

-Too much grind in areas dedicated to the main quest line. Both the elven and mage recruitment missions felt overlong with too many mobs to go through.
-Too many random encounters against mobs, practically one per trip.
-Leliana. The character is too schizophrenic. First she's an elite bard/assassin, then a nun/religious fanatic coupled with what appears to be Imoen's innocent demanour and a "neutral good" personality (she approves all my good actions). It simply doesn't work, the differences are too great to be beliveable.
-Too many generic quests. Especially the boards, but much of the other stuff as well.
-The PC's dialog options. Too short and to the point, reminds me of Shepard.
-Design of the forest.

What I like:

-The resolution of the Witherfang quest.
-Most of the game's joinable NPC's. They're mostly a bit on the dull and generic side but they're not emo, and they've got interesting storylines. Wynne in particular. I've yet to get the dwarf.
-The way you learn the Arcane Warrior or whatever that mage specialization is called.
-Design of the ruins in the forest.

The argument that mages are 'overpowered' in DA is hogwash since the same argument could be used for D&D mages (or heck any game with mages).

No. When my mage PC is doing all the slaughtering and all the rest are only used to keep the enemies busy something is not right. Spamming mana potions and dancing away allows my PC to dish out obscene amounts of damage, to the point where most of the other characters seem redundant. In DnD this power has limits, in the amount of spells you can dish out in an encounter. In DA you just have to keep potions handy and you can slaughter just about anything. And every spell is available, thus you don't have the possibility of being unprepared.
No other available class can even touch a mage, if he's played with at least a little effort and stocked up on potions.

-Also when you've gained sufficent levels, you always have a spell that has "cooled", and with enough potions you could more or less deliver an unending stream of spells.

You misunderstand my point. DA showed me, dispite its shortcomings, that Bioware can make a good RPG. As you said, make DA2's story more personal, give room for areas that have nothing to do with the main story having quests of their own. Give more variation when it comes to enemy encounters, upgrade the art design and color palette, work further on the game mechanics and you have a really great game. It has solid ground, it simply needs to lift off.

And who the hell called Vizima a city of bad design, in terms of scope and art again? That's just pure BS all the way through.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Perhaps you misunderstood my point. I don't think its an issue over whether Bioware can make a good RPG's. I find all their games to be good considering their high polish and a complete lack of competition from any other company. Only Obsidian and CDProjekt even bother making this type of game, and CDProjekt is still in its infancy. Obsidian's obligation to continue everyone else's work is dragging its creative potential down somewhat.

Overall I don't think anything they made after BGII is bad. Its a "flat line" of good titles achieved through taking their original Infinity engine formula, repeating it - and in general playing safe with everything else (stories, characters and settings).

Each title they release in this manner makes me more convinced that they aren't going to go beyond "good" and attempt exceptional. I don't know if Dragon Age 2 can be that improvement. For one it was obviously not planned as a trilogy with an overarching plot. And even if it was, DA isn't the greatest start. I just cant play another Jedi, Spectre, Grey Warden and save the world for the umpteenth time. If they ditch the entire Gray Warden deal, which practically forces the player to be a medieval cop and just do something else in the setting, (which by itself isn't bad) then perhaps.

Their saving grace I think is that they might be trapped by the rabid fan base on the Bio forums that applauds everything they make like a retarded child, and gets torches and pitchforks out if you suggest that "something is rotten...". Plus development costs have risen a lot since those days, and some unfortunate conventions (like voices for everyone, or pushing graphical limits) just keep adding to it. Plus they've got EA looking over their shoulder and you know how that finishes in the long run *cough* Westwood *cough*. So yes, they do have to play safe to a certain extent. I just dont know how much is necessity and how much is stale company policy.

On Vizima: Volo did.

This post has been edited by RPGmasterBoo: Feb 12 2010, 04:18 PM

[Spider]

So I bit the bullet and got Return to Ostagar. And played it. Here are my thoughts on it:

(some spoilerish things, but vague enough to not warrant tags I think)

There is a lot of combat. It's basically only combat. And some codes entries that give some clues as to what Cailan was thinking. And some loot. Cailan's armor (which is so, so, there are definitely better high tier armors in the game), and a couple of nice weapons (3 or 4 depending on where you are in the game I guess).

The premise for going back is a bit stupid. But I guess it works.

Then there was fighting. Lots of fighting. Unfortunately, most of it grindy fighting. There are a few yellows here and there, but nothing really difficult. And the archers didn't seem to have scattershot (the stunning one). So while there are many archers, they aren't really scary (this is for a level 23 character).

Some fights are staged in an interesting way, but most are just bumrushes.

There is a stretch at the end where you get the kind of cannon fodder that is in the endgame of the original campaign. It's fairly short though, so I not that annoying (although I didn't mind it that much in the original campaign, where the fodder made a little more sense thematically).

Then there is the end fight vs an orange monster. Which was laughably easy.

Most of the scenery is reused, of course. There are a couple of new areas, but they aren't long. As far as playtime is concerned, I think it was a little longer than Warden's Keep, but nowhere near as nicely designed. Other than at the start of the quest and the very end, there is no dialogue. None. Although there is some amusing banter between Alistair and Wynne if you bring both.

For a level 23 character, the DLC has about 4,000 and change worth of XP for those who care). Enough to push me over to level 24 (at least with some donations to my troops).

If you like the battles of DAO, Return to Ostagar could be worth getting. It's not terribly expensive and has a few interesting moments. But it's a little borderline, to be honest. I think it's probably more interesting to have if you go there a lot earlier in the game. maybe around level 15 or so. I didn't think it was a waste of money but that is because I love the game and the combat in it. If you don't like the combat, stay away.

[Gorth]

Thread running away a bit there...

Spiders post and thread continued here