The Kreia/Kae Question, another cut storyline? Options

[phiont]

[Edit: I hope nobody minds that I've editted the title of this thread to reflect that it overwhelmingly deals with only the first of the 2 Questions I was originally asking.]



Kreia was Handmaidens mother, right?

I just assumed that when Kavar said to her, "I thought you died on Malachor V" that he was referring to Master Kae, Handmaiden's mom. Besides Kreia acknowledged being one of Revan's Masters and elsewhere Master Kae was mentioned as being one of Revan's Masters. Even Sion refers to Kreia's hopes to train one as great as her former apprentice (Revan). And when Kreia speaks of have the galaxy by the throat at one time, I suppose she meant through Revan. And then there's all the complicated emotions that Kreia always reveals whenever Handmaiden is mentioned including her exclamation of "betrayal" when Handmaiden accepts Jedi training. Oh yeah, and they both have white hair.



This was the second question: The droid factory should have been under the abandoned military base on Telos, right?

After listening to the unused HK-47 sound clip that camicortes posted a while back, it's quite clear that the factory was supposed to be on Telos. It just seemed odd that the HK-50 units that arrived just after you depart the underground base seem to be making a routine visit, like they're there quite regularly. They react like their home has been ransacked. Perhaps that unusable door leading to the sublevel originally lead to the droid factory.


Thoughts?

[Aegis]

#1.
What? You can actually get a story about the Handmaiden's mother from Kreia, I find it hard to believe that she is the Handmaiden's mother. It's an... er... interesting theory you got there, though.

#2.
Seems like it.

[Oerwinde]

I doubt Kreia was Handmaiden's mother. Just because Kavar thought she died on Malachor doesn't mean anything because hundreds if not thousands of Jedi died on Malachor. Also, it was also said that Revan had many masters.

Though Atton does say he thinks she may have been beautiful once.

[phiont]

That was only a small part of the evidence I was collecting about Kreia possibly having been Master Kae. Here's a bit more:

1. About Revan's masters it was said, "Revan had many Masters. Zhar, Dorak, Master Kae before Kae left for the Wars." I don't believe that Kae, the only female master listed, was mentioned by coincidence.

2. Kae was exiled for having a child. Kreia was also exiled by the Jedi council, but we never learned why.

3. There's an interesting bit of unused dialog from when your party first meets the mercs above the military base on Telos:

Hrmph... Arren Kae.[Sounds disgusted.]Hrmph... Eras Jast.Hrmph... the "Jedi."Executive Lorso did say you were dangerous... maybe she *does* know what she's talking about.We'll see. You may have caught a few of my boys off-guard... but let's see how you fight now, "Jedi."Attack!

4. The Disciple said, "As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled."

5. Revan was also supposed to have studied much about force bonds. Perhaps he learned that from Master Kae and that could explain how Kreia knew the technique.

[phiont]

Bingo!! I found it.

With enough influence over Kreia she will confess the following:

"Ah... and what did you wish to know of Revan?[Influence: Success] She came to me, yes. Both before and after, before Revan knew herself. And after, in the times when Revan was coming into her own and learning she was more than she had been told. At one time, Revan was my Padawan."

[phiont]

#1.
What? You can actually get a story about the Handmaiden's mother from Kreia,

Yes. According to Kreia:

"You are spending time with the servant of Atris. I knew her mother. She was a Jedi Knight - a master, named {ERIN}Arren Kae. Jedi are forbidden to have children, and when the crime finally came to light almost a decade later, Kae was exiled. She joined the Mandalorian Wars after the shame of her birth was revealed. Revan welcomed her. And she was... said to be... a skilled warrior. Beautiful. And strong in the Force."

[Helton]

That's a new one. You fail to prove it, though. Yes, both Kreia and Kae trained Revan... so?

But I like it anyways. I'll keep my eyes open for more evidence on further playthroughs.

[The Great Phanto...]

Arren Kae died, like most Jedi in the Wars... I'll find it if you want...

That is why Handmaiden accepts training.

[phiont]

The only way Kreia was not Master Kae is if Revan had 2 female masters who were each exiled by the council and who each were thought to have died fighting the Mandalorians at Malachor V. I suppose anything's possible. "

[The Great Phanto...]

Arren Kae fell in love with an Echani General, Yusannis... They had an affair, and the Handmaiden was born. When the Jedi found out, she was exiled, and left to join Revan. She was beautiful, and died when the Handmaiden was very young. Brianna only remembers her Father, and how he looked after the Wars before he was murdered by Darth Revan.

Read my sig...

[Zilod]

I had some suspicions about that too, there are some hints that seem to point to that... even the fact that Kea died on Malachor and her body was never found can be a hint of her 'final fall'

but there are some things that made me discard the idea...


the betrayal path is quite fundamental for Kreia, to follow this path she have to be betrayed before to become a betrayer, if Kreia is Kea this path seem to lose strenght as it seem that no one betrayed her before her exile.


the Exile was an important officer and he knew Hndmaiden's father so is quite likelly that he knew, at leas by sight, even Kea (who is both the wife of an important officer and a former master of Revan himself) and it seem very strange that he didn't recognize Kreia.

Is also true that Kreia tells to the Exile that she had the power to erase her presence even from the memory but it seem that she doesn't use that technique with him.


as said there are many hints about the possibility that Kreia and Kea are the same person, they have both some things that can explain the other character and the temptation is really strong, but these 2 doubts are really big ones, so for now i'm inclined o think that they are 2 different characters.

[The Great Phanto...]

2 different people... That's just SICK if they're not...

Could we get a Dev's oppinion here?

[The Great Phanto...]

Where does it say Master Kae tought Revan? She was a Knight, and served under Revan, had an affair, etc.

Can you picture Kreia with the Echani General? I'm going to have nightmares now... gee, thanks a ton.

[phiont]

At the end, Kreia says that "there must always be a Darth Traya." This makes it sound more like a title than her actual name.

And according to Atris, "Kreia? Oh... that is not her name." And Atris seemed to know Kreia personally when they finally met at the polar academy. It certainly helps explain why the story focused earlier on Atris being concerned about not having met the "old woman" that the handmaiden sisters had penned up.

[The Great Phanto...]

Kreia was infamous, as all of her students: Revan, Sion?, etc., ended up failures.

Traya is the name of Sith Betrayal... perhaps the Academy was founded in the Golden Age, and a series of teachings (Pain, Hunger, Betrayal, other secret yet-to-be-revealed teachings), and Traya was the name given to the Betrayer... or, maybe it was a "Power" referred to on Malachor V...

Atris is concerned for the above reasons.

I don't think she was Handmaiden's mom, but perhaps she trained Arren Kae... ??? :ph34r: