Cut Ending Stuff, free gizka with every view! Options

[Meshugger]

Some of you guys crack me up...even the haterz. 

But to be honest guys, I didn't even work on the game...but I am familiar with how the industry works and I don't think there's much I could personally say that would help you guys out.

Since Aurora is trying to put togther a mod team to reimplement the cut content, maybe Obsidian could officially support the mod with info, dev notes, maybe software tools, etc.?

It seems like a good idea to me. What would you say, Aurora, this is your project, in a large part, so your input (assuming Obsidian would/could go along with something like this) would be appreciated.

Are they actually allowed to do this? Isn't the software a property of Bioware?

IIRC, Obsidian can't support mods for TSL, since it's strictly forbidden (or not encouraged) by Lucasarts.

[Creston]

Deleted first part of this post, since it was a bit of a d'oh

-----------

I do respect the email that Fearqus(sic?) sent back to our one reader who was kind enough to post his email on this thread. I can understand that they are new and that their hands are tied in what they can do.

Also, I think that support for modding is going to be non-existant, since LA HATES any and all modding done to Star Wars games. (mostly because of the possible changes to canon storylines)

However, Obsidian, I hope you understand that despite your apologies and that you say "have learned from your mistakes", your next games are NOT going to be bought sight unseen by me. And despite the post on the NWN forums that states that you are working for a completely different publisher now, I would like to remind you that said publisher is Atari / Infogrames, who have just as much of a penchant for forcing early releases as LucasArts has. The Temple of Elemental Evil comes readily to mind.
Also, I would like to remind you that simply sucking up to a publisher's demands will in no way guarantee that you can continue to exist as a developer, if it leads to grossly unfinished games. Again, see Troika.

I can only hope that you truly HAVE learned from your mistakes, and that you are aware that what you have done IS indeed a mistake.

New games are coming out, and Kotor2 is probably going to wind up uninstalled sometime soon, after a mere two playthroughs. While the game and the story are excellent, the complete lack of any kind of ending or closure just leaves a sour taste in my mouth everytime I watch those ending credits roll.

Time for Act of War, methinks.

Creston

[Creston]

I wish I had some programming skills to help you out but I work in frikken finance, which is were people of average intelligence gather when they can't figure out what they want to do.

I give computer support to people like you "
I wonder what that says about me....

Creston

[Jun Madine]

I can't believe that KOTOR II got two developers choice awards?!!?!
Do the people who run those things realize that the game is incomplete!!?!
Do they even play the games?!!???
As a matter of fact did the people in OE and LA play the game fully??
Did they think they could get away with that WTF ending??
Is there a plan to sell an expansion pack???
Do they want to lose both valuable consumers and their money??
Did they think of the consequences?
Will you buy another OE game after that?


From my experiance working at a Video Game store I get an average of two games returned a week.
I can't even recomend it to anyone (A friend who did had a nasty time with the person he sold it to)
From what I have seen it would be wise to DO somthing before they end up loosing more money then they put in to the game development.

I myself had very high hopes for the game and everything that I heard in reviews was true the gamplay was good and the story was OK but that can't hope to excuse or forgive the ending *excuse me* lack of ending or explanation of what to expect. also what about the dead ends in the game? Examples: G0-T0, HK-47/HK-50s, lack of story with Mandalore, Darth Nihilus(he was extremely over rated), T3-M4(what is his story?), and Disciple(Why was he even in the story?)

I am sorry for being random but the ending is EXTREMELY frustrating.

[Jedihuh?]

I can't believe that KOTOR II got two developers choice awards?!!?!
Do the people who run those things realize that the game is incomplete!!?!
Do they even play the games?!!???
As a matter of fact did the people in OE and LA play the game fully??
Did they think they could get away with that WTF ending??
Is there a plan to sell an expansion pack???
Do they want to lose both valuable consumers and their money??
Did they think of the consequences?
Will you buy another OE game after that?


From my experiance working at a Video Game store I get an average of two games returned a week.
I can't even recomend it to anyone (A friend who did had a nasty time with the person he sold it to)
From what I have seen it would be wise to DO somthing before they end up loosing more money then they put in to the game development.

I myself had very high hopes for the game and everything that I heard in reviews was true the gamplay was good and the story was OK but that can't hope to excuse or forgive the ending *excuse me* lack of ending or explanation of what to expect.  also what about the dead ends in the game?  Examples: G0-T0, HK-47/HK-50s, lack of story with Mandalore, Darth Nihilus(he was extremely over rated), T3-M4(what is his story?), and Disciple(Why was he even in the story?)

I am sorry for being random but the ending is EXTREMELY frustrating.

Read this thread all the way through. You'll get some answers

[isdngirl]

Read this thread all the way through. You'll get some answers

Just not from any devs

[Jedihuh?]

Read this thread all the way through. You'll get some answers

Just not from any devs

Ha true! Theres always hope tho....right??...........right??

[markussun]

If we don't speak up for what we feel is right, then it will become acceptable to give less and charge more. I, for one, am not going to just stand by and take this kind of attitude. Bottom line, if you want to have something great, you HAVE to be willing to stand up for it. Companies need to be held accountable for quality. We as consumers are the enforcers.

Very well put, MacGamer! Particularly the last 2 sentences.

I would like to encourage everyone reading this thread to email LucasArts (even if it's just a quick line or two) at the following valid email addresses:


pr@lucasarts.com ((!) official LucasArts Public Relations address)


mbihr@lucasarts.com ((!) Mary Bihr -- she's the Vice President, Global Publishing, and cares greatly about customer opinion)


rscott@lucasarts.com ((!) Ronda Scott -- Community Relations Specialist, it's her job to collect & report customer feedback)


I have researched these emails high and low (LucasArts has NONE on their website; they make it very hard to be contacted) and confirmed their validity and importance. Send one copy each of your feedback to all of these 3 email addresses.

LucasArts can intentionally or unintentionally ignore all the posts in the forums (they are a busy company after all, and reading forum threads is very time-consuming).

But I assure you, if only half of all the 130,000 people who viewed this thread (or even just the ~700 posters from this thread!) would use these email addresses to let LucasArts know directly how their customers feel about the unfinished release of KOTOR2, it would create a small earthquake over at LucasArts which they simply wouldn't be able to overlook...

These 3 emails I researched to be the most effective in dealing with LucasArts. It's the only way you can make a noticeable difference. Save your energy from this thread and channel it properly to where it has the largest effect.

If you don't give direction to your criticism as a game-purchaser, then all the good will and effort here on the forums will just be that -- background noise. If you want their attention, email them.

PS:
I'm sorry if any LucasArts emails have already been posted in this thread (although I doubt it, since these are not widely known), but I just didn't have the time to read through all the ~700 posts of this mammoth thread right now. But I fully support the effort. Either LucasArts restores the game, or the community will do it. And I will certainly do my share (i.e. restoring the proper STEREO music).

Remember: Every voice counts.

[MacGamer]

Are they actually allowed to do this? Isn't the software a property of Bioware?

While I am not a Lawyer, I don't believe this is BioWare IP. Bioware's role with the original Knights of The Old Republic was as a developer. Star Wars is the Intellectual Property of Lucas Entertainment (in one form or another) Bioware's role in the production of Knights of The Old Republic II, as I understand it, was merely being a consultant to Obsidian Entertainment.

I believe the question over the legalities of a user-made mod ultimately rest with LucasCorp.

[MacGamer]

I'm re-posting information in one of my previous posts, just in case anyone's interested. I've also incorporated markussun's new LucasArts contact information.

Keep in mind that a well-written letter, free from profanity and personal attacks, with at least one run through a spell-checker right before you send it, counts much more than train-of-thought reasons why you didn't like something. Also, an actual snail-mail letter (printed out from a word processing document, and signed by you personally) sent to the appropriate part(y/ies) probably counts for multiple e-mails. (It shows that you care enough about the issue to take the time to write about it, put it in the envelope & spend the measly .37 cents for postage).

Obsidian Entertainment, Inc.
1560 E. Warner Ave, Suite 220
Santa Ana, CA 92705
USA
bizdev@obsidianent.com

LucasArts
Attention: Product Support
Knights of The Old Republic II
P.O. Box 10307
San Rafael, CA 94912
webmaster@lucasarts.com

pr@lucasarts.com (official LucasArts Public Relations address)

mbihr@lucasarts.com (Mary Bihr -- Vice President, Global Publishing, and cares greatly about customer opinion)

rscott@lucasarts.com (excl.gif Ronda Scott -- Community Relations Specialist, it's her job to collect & report customer feedback)

[dufflover]

Just from what I'm reading (so I could be wrong and everyone has their own view), I tend to go with apparent majority who are satisfied that KotOR 2 has met a satisfactory standard (an *overall* positive game), but make the point of highlighting some of slopiness/mismanagements with their plot/technical/testing/whatever work.

Heh, maybe not a majority cos there's so many pages...arggghh!

[Objulen]

Are they actually allowed to do this? Isn't the software a property of Bioware?

While I am not a Lawyer, I don't believe this is BioWare IP. Bioware's role with the original Knights of The Old Republic was as a developer. Star Wars is the Intellectual Property of Lucas Entertainment (in one form or another) Bioware's role in the production of Knights of The Old Republic II, as I understand it, was merely being a consultant to Obsidian Entertainment.

I believe the question over the legalities of a user-made mod ultimately rest with LucasCorp.

Whoever has the technical rights to TSL, Obsidian definantly has the info that would be integrated into the mod unless they got rid of it for some reason.

As for the issue of IP rights, I don't see why they would be a problem. A mod team doing most of the work is making a mod to restore content that would make the game better. LA does nothing but give Obsidian a green light, Obsidian doesn't invest an incredible amount of effort, and the mod team gets information and other help for a mod that they would make without that help anyway.

I can't see a reason not to officially support the mod. Everyone wins; nobody loses.

[MacGamer]

Are they actually allowed to do this? Isn't the software a property of Bioware?

While I am not a Lawyer, I don't believe this is BioWare IP. Bioware's role with the original Knights of The Old Republic was as a developer. Star Wars is the Intellectual Property of Lucas Entertainment (in one form or another) Bioware's role in the production of Knights of The Old Republic II, as I understand it, was merely being a consultant to Obsidian Entertainment.

I believe the question over the legalities of a user-made mod ultimately rest with LucasCorp.

Whoever has the technical rights to TSL, Obsidian definantly has the info that would be integrated into the mod unless they got rid of it for some reason.

As for the issue of IP rights, I don't see why they would be a problem. A mod team doing most of the work is making a mod to restore content that would make the game better. LA does nothing but give Obsidian a green light, Obsidian doesn't invest an incredible amount of effort, and the mod team gets information and other help for a mod that they would make without that help anyway.

I can't see a reason not to officially support the mod. Everyone wins; nobody loses.

Don't get me wrong, I *am* hoping that there won't be any conflicts anywhere, and the modding team can contribute in a great way to the game. I wish them much success. I might even be able to lend a little bit of help... Not coding or anything, or the effort will just gring to a halt. I mihgt be able to QA the work a bit, thoguh.















heh, j/k about the errors in the last sentence.

[Msxyz]

I can't believe that KOTOR II got two developers choice awards?!!?! Do the people who run those things realize that the game is incomplete!!?! Do they even play the games?!!???

Is there any reason to trust online reviews / awards /etc. ?
Onlines gaming sites depends on advertising, thus on software publishers. Not to mention that to write a review in time for the release you'll need to receive your copy at least a week before the release date, which means you have to ask the software publisher to let you review his products. While nobody from the biz wil admit this, most marketing dept's put some kind of pressure on the journalists to "encourage" them to write positive reviews. How ? By providing some exclusive footage or allowing the jorunalists to test future products early in the developmente (it's a well known fact that exlcusive content increases the hit-rate of a site which, in turns, brings more money from the ads).

And if your site is not "cooperative" enough (ie you give bad reviews) you'll may even end up not having reveiw-material anymore. NVidia was rumored to apply this strong-arming technique during the GeForceFX fiasco.

From my experiance working at a Video Game store I get an average of two games returned a week. I can't even recomend it to anyone (A friend who did had a nasty time with the person he sold it to)

I've worked both in software and hardware stores when I was a student. I've learnt an important lesson: don't recommend anything. Even if your intentions are good, you'll always find the troublesome custumer who is ready to blame you for his ineptitude, his misfortune or his dissatisfaction.

As for the software being returned, I think the economical damage done to the software publishers is minimal. But it's a damage for the store which has to pay a partial refund while the publisher won't take back the rejected copies unless they are defective. If you're lucky enough you can hope to resell them at moderate price on the second hand market (but most of the sales are usually concentrated in the first week when people buy the games at full price); if not you'll end up with a big dusty pile of useless CDs

[213374U]

OK, this is not quite part of the ending, but it appears to have been cut from the game too (or at least I haven't been able to acess it in 2 1/2 playthroughs).

Browsing through HK's sound files, I came across some references to 'simulations'. Apparently, you were supposed to have access to both turret simulations (just like in K1) AND sparring matches with your companions.

The files are StreamVoice\GBL\hk47\gblhk47036-38.wav

I think it would have been a pretty cool feature, and it's a shame it didn't make it into the final version.